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Derek MorePlatesMoreDates with Chris Cormier In Competition and in an interview with Tom Platz

Reacting To And Analyzing Chris Cormier’s Steroid Cycle In The 90’s

This interview discussing Chris Cormier's steroid cycle was recorded by Tom Platz in the 90's.

The guys that can best shed light on exactly what happened in the bodybuilding community in the 90's are the same guys who've been at the Olympia level and have Olympia caliber physiques.

Every single one of these interviews has been extremely eye opening.

People can guess all they want what these guys took, but at the end of the day, hearing it from their mouths themselves is the best way we can actually figure out what happened and make an educated assessment for our own use moving forward.

The whole point of this video is to bring to light the truth of the matter on steroid use.

Tom Platz Backstage Secrets of Pros

Just a disclaimer, we don't know for sure this is Chris Cormier.

This is just what the internet seems to think based on mannerisms, how he sounds and how he looks underneath the filter.

Tom Platz:  “We'll address a lot of sensitive issues today.

And I want to assure you that your identity will be protected in terms of the viewing audience, okay?

It's important to me, otherwise, I wouldn't agree to do this.

So often, the issue is not addressed.

The steroid issue in all sports from today is avoided, not addressed, not talked about as if it doesn't exist.

And having seen a lot of close friends of mine encounter some problems recently, I feel, personally strongly that the issue should be addressed in terms of honesty, in terms of education for future upcoming athletes.

And that's not that enough.

So, if we can do that today, which we will by not exploiting who you — who you're — who you really are, and if (INAUDIBLE) openly and honestly, that's the reason I would — that's the way I would like to proceed, and that's the reason I'm here in the first place.

And I hope you understand that, and I do thank you very much for being here and agreeing to be candid with us.

And of course, with your identity completely disguised.”

Chris Cormier:  “Thanks.”

Tom Platz:  “Thank you.

What Prompted Chris Cormier To Use Steroids

Tom Platz:  “First of all, I — the question I have to ask you is what brought you to the steroid table in the first place?”

Chris Cormier:  “Well, it's — when I was young, I always liked muscles, always intrigued by strength and the whole, you know, cartoon character look, and you know, the strength, you know, just muscle in general.

And I didn't know much about anything that can, you know, help you get bigger or whatever, other than the protein drinks and the liver pills, and you know, that was available through the stores at the time.

I was lifting weights as a kid, I started at a young age.

And once I got to college, someone pointed out a visual who was pretty large.

And he said, “Yes, he takes anabolic steroids.”

So, right then and there, I was like, you know, “Okay, I got to find out what this is about,” you know?

So, I started reading about it and looking at the different bodybuilders in the magazines.

And you know, feeling okay, this is what — you know, this is what's going on.

So, I read about it for a few years before trying it.”

Tom Platz:  “How old were you when you first started your first steroid cycle?”

Chris Cormier:  “I was 18.”

Tom Platz:  “Okay, and I was — you were competing then?”

[04:26]  I believe Chris is the youngest so far out of all of these interviews.

Chris Cormier:  “I competed before I took anything.

I was like training for about five or so years, and I start competing for about two years.

You know, people are taking steroids this and that.

You know, I was like, man, maybe that's why I'm, you know, taking a second and not winning or something like that.

I didn't — I didn't have any idea what was, you know, what was behind, you know, getting that harder look as a muscle or lose more water between the muscle and the skin, and everything.”

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  So, it was basically in order to compete on the bodybuilding stage for everyone else is doing it (INAUDIBLE) have to do it to get that edge, is that — am I hearing you correctly?”

Chris Cormier:  “Basically.  And you know I wanted to see, you know, what would happen if I took more — or if I took something, or whatever, you know, just like everyone else is doing.  So, I — but like I said, I tried to take this model route and at least be educated about what I was getting into and (INAUDIBLE) like I said, I read about it for good two years, two and a half years before I tried anything.”

Chris Cormier's Dianabol and Equipoise Use

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  Again, proceeding with our — the basic statements and thoughts we were aligning ourselves with.  

My next question would be what kind of steroids by name have you found most effective in your training?”

Chris Cormier:  “Right now or back then?”

Tom Platz:  “Well, I guess all through the course of your career.”

Chris Cormier:  “Dianabol, which is always a, you know, like the first thing a lot of people take or …”

[6:15]  Dianabol was a staple of the 70's and 80's-era.

Chris Cormier:  “And, you know, a personal favorite.  That Equipoise.”

[6:28]  I think he's the first one who said to have used Equipoise or EQ.

It's interesting because I don't even know if I'd combine those, to be honest.

Dianabol is just the oral version of the same drug essentially, and they both fulfill the same pathway of growth in the body, so their benefits overlap more so than having an additive effect to one another.

Anyway, I'm going to let him continue before I comment too much.

Parabolan (Trenbolone) Use

Chris Cormier:  “… is a regular Testosterone (INAUDIBLE) types of — types of Testosterone Cypionate and things of that nature.

Winstrol and the more hardening drugs like that.

Say, back then, we can get stuff like Finajet and, you know, different things like that.”

[7:14]  I don't know what he just said, but I'm pretty sure it was Finajet, which is a brand name of Trenbolone.

The human approved version was Parabolan made in France by Negma.

After that was discontinued, what a lot of guys did was they would get Finaplix H pellets, which are still available for veterinary use in beefing up cattle.

People would use these conversion kits to change these pellets into injectable solutions of Trenbolone.

I believe that is the origin of how veterinary use migrated into human use following the discontinuation of pharma grade Trenbolone products.

If you actually go to Merck's website, you can still see Finaplix H pellets that are sold for beefing up cattle.

Parabolan was the human approved Trenbolone and that was discontinued in the 90's.

I guess they started to go towards the veterinary stuff after that.

EQ is also a veterinary drug, at least in modern times.

Chris Cormier:  “But a lot of (INAUDIBLE) it's hard to find now.

There's a number of — you know, people kind of tried, but now it's go for what's available, what you think is real, or, you know, sometimes a lot of things are not even real, what's your taking and you thought he's taking something.”

Tom Platz:  “Yeah.”

[8:55]  It sounds like the accessibility was limited back then.

These guys take what they can get kind of thing.

It's interesting because these are all top Olympia competitors being interviewed.

For them to say, “you take what you can find and what's available,” it's crazy to hear that they had availability issues.

You can just imagine what the average Joe would go through trying to get good gear back then if even the top pros had access issues.

Tom Platz:  “That's definitely a concern.

I can — I can understand that.

Well, and — so basically, it's what's available and what you can get a hold of and hopefully it's real.”

Chris Cormier:  “Well, Parabolans and Primobolan, you see they would get like back in the day, there's — the growth hormone was not playing a key role in a lot of people's arsenal.”

Tom Platz:  “Yes, that's like …”

Chris Cormier:  “And you know …”

Growth Hormone Use And Dosage

Tom Platz:  “Let's talk about like currently, what you're using and what kind of dosages you might be using in terms of the androgenic and the anabolic material as such.”

Chris Cormier:  “Currently, I could take growth hormone and use about 9 IUs a day.”

Tom Platz:  “How long might that be for?”

Chris Cormier:  “As long as you can afford.”

Tom Platz:  “Yes, I can understand that.

Is that prior to a contest only?”

[10:23]  9 IUs, that's pretty high definitely, in my opinion.

Chris Cormier:  “You know, I've used it in the whole season, I use it for competition.”

Tom Platz:  “What's better results where?”

Chris Cormier:  “I like to use it during — getting ready for competition because (INAUDIBLE) seem to burn all my body fat.

And, you know, your energy levels are high, your nitrogen levels are high, and, you know, you have — you're really energetic and, you know, strong, and …”

Tom Platz:  “Can you get any one to …”

[10:52]  It's interesting to hear him say “energetic” because I feel for most people, once you get over 4 or 5 IUs of high quality, pharma-grade GH, you get tired and lethargic.

You release the most GH when you're sleeping, this is a hormone that makes you tired and spikes your blood sugar.

This isn't something that gives you tons of energy as a pre-workout drug, so it's kind of interesting to hear him say that.

Typically, one of the biggest limiting factors for people using growth hormone is insulin resistance and lethargy.

Tom Platz:  “… you're on growth hormone?  You eat anything you want to?”

Chris Cormier:  “I do anyway.  You know, I — you know, I tend to be able to cheat a little bit more.

And we're getting really good results from it, yes.”

Anadrol Use

Chris Cormier:  “And that's my favorite drug, Anadrol, the different types of Anadrol that's available now.”

Tom Platz:  “Staying with it, before we go on to the steroids, the GH or the growth hormone.

It's like, if you're — I realized if you could take it all-year long, you take it all-year long if you could afford it (INAUDIBLE) just — am I hearing you …”

Chris Cormier:  “I probably wouldn't myself. You know, I'm not like a person who would — you know, that's my favorite thing to do is take a lot of drugs, and you know, this type of new drug …”

Tom Platz:  “God.  I don't mean — I don't mean to say it that like …”

Chris Cormier:  “Well, no.  I don't know, I probably could if I were, you know, but that's very expensive to do something like that.”

[12:29]  Doing 9 units year-round, you would probably end up in danger zone for insulin resistance, in my opinion.

Just a heads up on that.

Tom Platz:  “… for an event nowadays.  Like say, we'd want name (INAUDIBLE)”

Chris Cormier:  “How far out or?”

Tom Platz: “How far out?”

Chris Cormier:  “Maybe 12 weeks out?”

Tom Platz: “Okay.  12 weeks out, 9 IUs a day, yeah?

It's — I'm sure it's pricey, for sure.”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah.”

Chris Cormier's Offseason Steroids

Tom Platz: “Now, moving on from the growth hormone, stepping back into the steroid arena, prior to an event, are the steroids different than they would be in the offseason?”

Chris Cormier:  “You would cycle… my — personally, I would start out like 15 weeks out if I have my way.”

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  Let's go …”

Chris Cormier:  “15 weeks out then I use the heavier, more water retention type substances about — for the — for like a Dbol, like Equipoise, Anadrol.”

Clenbuterol, Winstrol, and Cytomel Use

Chris Cormier:  “I use Clenbuterol with (INAUDIBLE) I would start switching to more hard …”

[13:37Clenbuterol 15 weeks out is interesting because I feel like most guys wouldn't add that in until closer to the tail end of a contest prep.

Everything else he's saying is pretty consistent with the other guys as far as long esters and things that hold more nitrogen as well as more water retention further out from the show.

Chris Cormier:  “… hardening things like Halotestin and Cytogen, and Winstrol and …”

[14:07]  Halotestin and Winstrol I'm aware of.

I don't know what Cytogen is though.

Chris Cormier:  “Primobolan and say Cytomel, I will start that.

[14:19Cytomel is T3.

Chris Cormier:  “That's all of my — when I want to — when I'm starting the phase and taking a little harder.”

Tom Platz: “Which is like?”

Chris Cormier:  “Usually, when around 8 to 6 weeks out.

I started out — the Cytogen, I'll take it like five weeks out or something like that.

And that's even pushing a little bit.”

Chris Cormier's Vague Dosing

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  Do you usually start with a lower dosage, go high and then regress or …”

Chris Cormier:  “I just — I don't take a lot of (INAUDIBLE)

Like for testosterone, I will probably take about maybe a couple of cc's twice a week or something like that.”

[14:55]  See, it's funny, something I'm realizing is that most of these guys quantify just in volume, not even the doses.

They're saying a cc here, a cc here, 2 cc's a week.

Tom has to dig to get an answer in milligrams.

It's interesting how they quantify things back then in cc's as if one dose is one cc, which is interesting.

Chris Cormier:  “You know, a lot of people might take more or less a little bit.

Testosterone now I've always — or I at a young age even I was told to take as little as possible to get the effects that you're looking for.

So, I was, that's my — my first instinct is to do that with most of the drugs that I take.

And then, from there, I would, you know, if 4 IUs is not working for me, or if I'd say 200 mg is not good for me, I'll go up to 400 mg, or you know, something like that.”

Tom Platz:  “Do you have a formula like a daily milligram allotment or do you …”

Chris Cormier:  “I used to.  I used to.  Now, it's just like, “Okay, Mondays and — Mondays and Thursdays, I'm going to be doing this and that.

I'm going to kick in this whatever, and I'm also looking at the mirror seeing over the years, you learn how to, you know, say hey, I'm holding a lot more water from — you know, this might be a reason, so I'm going to take that out, and put this in. 

You know, so like a recipe or something.”

Chris Cormier's Steroid Dosages

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  Like, in the offseason with the — more strength-enhancing, the bulking type agents or drugs.

Give me some idea, if you would, please, if you would share with us some idea of the dosages of those things, and then we'll move on to the pre-contest.”

Chris Cormier:  “Well, testosterone can be anywhere from, say, 600 mg, 800 mg a week of testosterone.

Primobolan, I like to take about, say, 400 mg a week.

Equipoise I would probably do like a full — syringe full twice — two times a week.”

Tom Platz:  “Full syringe meaning what?”

Chris Cormier:  “It depends — like say — like, say, it depends like if it's like 50 mg or whatever.  

But, you know, Equipoise is not — it's not like really high on androgens.

And it was like a mixture of both.

And so, I kind of just (INAUDIBLE) cc's two to three times a week of that.

For I was kicking some …”

[17:42]  I don't know if the EQ was concentrated at 50 mg/ml.

It's kind of interesting because pretty much every UGL does 200 to 300 mg, and then here he's talking about 50 mg unless I'm misinterpreting what he said.

It sounds so far, we're at 1,600 to 2,000 mg approximately per week.

Chris Cormier:  “Growth Hormone and I would do, say, 4 — I still go around 4 IUs per day and work my way up to 9 or so …”

Tom Platz:  “The growth hormone does go up and then stops.”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah.  You know what, I like to go about 8 to 10 weeks with growth hormone.

And then once you start to come off of it, you start, you know, you lose a little bit of water.

But the size and strength usually stays pretty good with the growth hormone.

My offseason cycles, now I like to take around four to five different types of steroids at one time.”

Tom Platz:  “Is it two androgenic and two anabolic or …?”

Chris Cormier:  “And even more even — yeah, I keep it pretty even like that, yeah.

Tom Platz:  “Offseason?  And as you move into the season, the heavier androgenics come out to some degree?”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah, I do it that way and then — but at the same time, you know, I — like for decades.

And I would — I would probably do, say, about 400 mg or — 400 to 800 mg per week of the deca alone.”

Tom Platz:  “And that's usually starting closer to the contest.

Chris Cormier:  “Right, exactly.”

Pro-Bodybuilder Dosages Vs Average Bodybuilder Dosages

[19:17]  These doses are all pretty standard honestly.

Some of these are even low.

I know tons of guys who think EQ is useless under 700 mg, they think Primobolan is useless under 900 mg, Deca is 400 mg minimum, and all these crazy preconceived notions.

These guys are using pretty much normal gym rats are using plus some GH.

The steroid use itself is pretty interesting.

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  So, before a contest, it might mean eight weeks in, the Deca, you mentioned I think Winstrol, and that would be like cc's of that would be, approximately?

Chris Cormier:  “See, that's — again, that's usually 50 mg per bottle you're taking.

About two or three bottles per time, like two times a week or so.

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  So, if you're using two …”

[20:18]  So, the Winstrol is 50 mg/ml and 2 to 3 bottles a few times a week, so you're at 300 to 450 per week, approximately.

Chris Cormier's Hardening Agents

Tom Platz:  “… androgenics and two anabolics prior to — during the offseason.

Before the event eight weeks in, you're using more hardening agents, as you call it, and no more anabolics. 

And that would be how many agents, roughly?  I know it changes from …”

Chris Cormier:  “That depends on what's available at the time and what's in your budget for your competition.

So, let's say, you know, if you're training for a show, and you have — you have Halotestin, Cytogen, some type of …”

Tom Platz:  “Halotestin?”

Chris Cormier:  “… Clenbuterol.  Halotestin, I'd like to take about 30 to 40 mg per day.”

[21:13]  I've always heard guys say, don't go over 20 mg because 20 mg is a threshold where you start getting into a really toxic territory, and to only use it two weeks out.

30 to 40 mg, that seems pretty high, but that's something I have a lot less experience researching, to be honest.

It seems like a pretty high dose for that.

Chris Cormier:  “I start it for about five weeks out or so.”

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  That is a hardening type agent.”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah.  And Cytogen, that's about four weeks out, and I'm starting our different (INAUDIBLE) milligrams, and you take in — you start up (INAUDIBLE) going up to two — I've got two on one off with that.  

That's pretty hard on your system, so you want to kind of, you know, not stay on it too long.  

And then the Cytogen — the Cytomel also — it's also needed for the extra body fat that you're burning.

And also, it works really well with the growth hormone also.”

Nolvadex and Proviron Use

Chris Cormier:  “And I would say (INAUDIBLE) you know, stick on Nolvadex and Proviron, stuff like that for extra hardening effects.

You know, I've used both of those with — at different times.  And what else?”

Tom Platz:  “Well — so many different ways to go in this.”

I mean — so is there any time during the year when you, for sure, don't take steroids and …”

Chris Cormier:  “Right after — well, coming out to competition like the last week or so, discard all the steroids and, you know, you tend to look harder because it's all making you hold some kind of water, some kind of — in some kind of area.”

Tom Platz:  “Is there a number of months during the year that you don't take steroids at all?”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah, I've done — and I've done that during the course of my career.  

I've — actually, I've taken a lot of time off.

Sometimes I would take a 12-week cycle, and I would go off for 12 weeks.

You know, and I would …”

Tom Platz:  “So, there's no exact (INAUDIBLE) change in …”

Chris Cormier:  “Right, right.  

It changes, and as you develop and grow bigger and you start to change the way you do a lot of things and take a lot different things, and you know?”

Chris Cormier's Take On Insulin Use

Tom Platz:  “Since we've been speaking about GH to some degree already offseason or on season, we discussed drugs, steroids in terms of offseason versus on season.

And whatever your cyclic pattern, which changes a great deal.  

My next question would be insulin, is that ever a consideration in your program?”

Chris Cormier:  “Yes, I've used it for a contest prep, as far as I starting my off cycles off with, you know, helping you gain a little bit more weight before you start to cut down.

And (INAUDIBLE) works, you know, really well.

It's just really dangerous for people to use it.

And you really have to know what you're doing if you're starting to step into that arena.”

Tom Platz:  “So, you only take it when you're getting size?”

Chris Cormier:  “I did that, but I also took it to, you know, carb-up phase during competition.”

Tom Platz:  “Okay, but you don't take it other than maybe the last week before the show then?”

Chris Cormier:  “On the last year — yeah, the last — within the last week, the last few days before the show.”

Tom Platz:  “And then maybe in the offseason for how long?”

Chris Cormier:  “For a few weeks.  I never — I never took a long cycle.  I went — it's not my favorite thing to do.”

[24:52]  See, it's interesting because a lot of guys think that these guys are on Lantus with their GH pretty much year-round to gain massive amounts of size, and crank their IGF-1 up.

It seems like the insulin use is actually really conservative, or perhaps it's just the taboo drug, so no one wants to come clean about how they actually use it.

I don't really know for sure, but no one seems to have very aggressive insulin use so far, and that's out of every person in this series.

Chris Cormier:  “Doing all that stuff, you know, watching yourself if you're going to fall asleep or not.

It's just — it's really — it's really dangerous, and …”

Insulin Dosage

Tom Platz:  “About dosage as far as insulin?”

Chris Cormier:  “Dosages, I would — I would go about — if I was going to take it in the offseason I would do about three or — three or four times a day.

And I would space it out every six hours or so for about 12 to 15 IUs I believe or so.”

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  I'm not sure the …”

Chris Cormier:  “On a syringe, you will see 10, 20, 30.

I would take within — between 10 and 20.

No more than that though.”

Tom Platz:  “And that was …”

[26:05]  12 the 15 IUs three times a day?

That's a pretty considerable amount, granted the duration of time though, you would assume these guys are using it much more than just a few sporadic times for carbing up or for a few weeks a year for hypertrophy.

The dosing schedule is more in line with what I'd expect though, utilizing several doses throughout the day of probably a fast-acting insulin with each meal.

Although, I was expecting somebody to have been on a longer acting Insulin based around all of their meals in a day, but it doesn't seem like anyone's doing that in this series.

Tom Platz:  “Three times a day?”

Chris Cormier:  “Three times a day?

Early in the morning then soon after, only then in the evening.”

Tom Platz:  “Is it after workout, before working out?”

Chris Cormier:  “I've done it — I've tried it that way also.

I tried it in the middle of my workout even.

And so, on your time (INAUDIBLE) for within that 20 minutes, you're going to be done and you're gonna start eating, and that seemed to work pretty good too. 

But I just — I'm not really, you know ventured into getting really serious about doing the insulin deal.”

Tom Platz:  “So, it's just sort of something you played with.”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah, played with, but never really seriously seen the actual effects of what can — what can be done with …”

[27:19]  For somebody on 9 IUs of GH though, again, that's somebody who could probably benefit from insulin, not just in a performance-enhancing context, but health standpoint, because there's a lot of stress on your pancreas if you have chronically elevated blood sugar from that much growth hormone all day.

Chris Cormier:  “I do know the dangerous sides of it.

You know, because I've seen a lot of people get a lot of — a lot of bad reactions from it, and I've been in dangerous — put yourself in dangerous positions from it.

I've seen it firsthand, so I do know not to mess with it too much.”

Aldactone Use

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  Well, the next item I'd like to discuss with you would be the use of diuretics.  

Is that (INAUDIBLE) been something you've utilized?”

Chris Cormier:  “Well, I've used that since I was a teenager, I started using it.  

It's — I've never really had a problem with it.

I never took a lot — I never took over 75 mg of like Aldactone.

75 mg has been the most I've taken per day of that (INAUDIBLE) my body is very sensitive to a lot of water.

And I never had a lot of problems with cramping or anything like that, that lot of people have associated with diuretic use.”

Tom Platz:  “The Aldactone is used at the last week prior to a show?”

Dyazide Use

Chris Cormier:  “I started — yes, like the Tuesday on to the show.

And then like, say, like a Friday or so, I would start with a little bit of Dyazide.

You have guys open up Dyazide caps and empty a little …”

[28:59]  That's the classic protocol.

Again, it's the same diuretic protocol you see time and time again.

It seems everyone's more or less doing the same thing.

The difference comes down to genetics it seems like at the end of the day.

I feel like that's definitely the takeaway message from this series.

Chris Cormier:  “Out of it so it wouldn't be as strong as normal.

And that's something I've always been really sensitive about taking because it tend to take a long …”

[29:25]  If I was competing for example, and I was going to do a peak week, I would avoid Aldactone.

I think it sucks, personally.

The half a Dyazide the night before if you actually need it makes sense, but I feel a week out, you should be lean enough and already stage ready and just cruise into the show.

I feel Aldactone has more negatives than positives.

The Dyazide more than accomplishes the goal of getting that extra crispy, dry, grainy look that the Aldactone might achieve, but it's a lot harder to fill out on Aldactone, at least in my experience.

I feel like it's a subpar diuretic that's overly used.

That's just my personal opinion, though.

Chris Cormier:  “(INAUDIBLE) water out of the muscle also is, you know, is just as much as it takes it from — between the muscle and the skin.  

You're going to lose a bit of size, and so I've never been, you know, a big fan on taking a lot of milligrams in terms of diuretics.”

Tom Platz:  “But mainly, prior to an event, you find that it's Aldactone and a little Dyazide is effective?”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah, very effective, very effective.

And the difference between a couple places if you didn't take it, definitely.

Chris Cormier's Take On Diuretic Testing In The 90's

Tom Platz:  “Now, that I understand they're testing for diuretics in the Olympia only, exclusively, how to get around that?”

Chris Cormier:  “They've done it for most.  

Sometimes if you go to a show and they don't test us — well, you don't — you don't know about it, though, and you know, who's to say if, you know, if they really tested for it or not, but you know, there are times when people have gotten caught for taking things.”

Tom Platz:  “Is there any specific way that there are masking agent for diuretics or a way to get around the …”

Chris Cormier:  “Not that I know of.

Not that I know of.

I think if you lower your sodium a lot more than normal and play with that, that number and take the — a lot of the natural diuretics that's available over the counter.

That with a combination with the (INAUDIBLE) and you know, it's hard — I've used insulin and the insulin tends to suck a little bit of water from — into the muscle from in between the skin and the muscle.

So, that would still — the muscle fibers looked as if as though the skin is tighter around it.”

Tom Platz:  “This is with …”

Chris Cormier:  “(INAUDIBLE) I use insulin and the …”

Tom Platz:  “And diuretic?”

Chris Cormier:  “With — the natural diuretics, you know, (INAUDIBLE) together to make — give you a pretty good tight look.”

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  Okay.  So, like, when — if you do take diuretics prior to a show, they're usually natural diuretics and not Aldactone or Dyazide.”

Chris Cormier:  “I've tried that also.  I tried it to where I stopped the use of diuretics on a Wednesday, and I was tested on a Saturday, and it wasn't in my system.

But then between the Wednesday and Saturday, your water — your water intake has to be at all-time low.

I've tried that with taking — the only thing I drank from the Wednesday until Saturday was a diuretic tea.

I've tried that, and it seemed to work pretty well.

I only tried it once, though.

I'm just trying different ways to, you know, get the best — the best results.”

Tom Platz:  “I guess my question would be, do you think the steroid — diuretic test is real?”

Chris Cormier:  “I think it's real.

I don't want to test, you know, risk losing all my money or — you know, it's not saying because there's not much, you know, discipline behind getting busted for it.

But losing that money is the — that's the biggest thing at this point in time.”

Chris Cormier's Scariest Insulin Experience

Tom Platz:  “As a pro-athlete, I understand.  Sure.

Anything really scary ever happened to you with diuretic use or GH use or insulin use?”

Chris Cormier:  “I mean, you feel the effects when you take insulin. 

As far as you know, lightheaded, sweating a lot, you just grab on to — the use of some kind of …”

[34:00]  Quickly touching on “feeling” the effects of insulin.

If you feel your insulin, you're not taking it right, just a heads up there.

I don't know if that's consistent with every time he took it, but if he was taking 12 to 15 IUs of fast acting Insulin, I would understand why he would be going hypoglycemic fairly often.

You shouldn't feel low blood sugar symptoms because you shouldn't be using enough insulin to drop your blood sugar that low to begin with, or you should be eating enough carbs to complement it.

And if you get to that point, you're defeating the purpose of the insulin in the first place, which is to drive the nutrients from your current diet into the muscle more efficiently.

If you add in carbs around your insulin use you're defeating the purpose of it and working against yourself.

With your current diet, however much food you need to grow, your insulin dose should accommodate that amount of carbohydrates, not the other way around where you have some arbitrary dosages of 12 to 15 IUs, and then you're forcing yourself to have to take in an extra 120 to 150 g of carbs to make sure you don't end up with low blood sugar symptoms.

That's a huge mistake guys make, they eat around their insulin dose, which is an arbitrary dose to begin with, rather than having their dose based around their diet, which is how a diabetic uses it and how it's intended to be used.

You shouldn't ever be going hypoglycemic because you want to feel it.

You shouldn't be feeling this at all.

Go For Regular Checkups

Chris Cormier:  “Sugar in the system or whatever.

I've always had that when I got checkups for steroids stuff, I always (INAUDIBLE) you know, great results from that.

It's always been fine.”

Tom Platz:  “So, you do recommend checkups?”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah, definitely recommend checkups.

Not so much right when you're in a competition phase, because you're taking a lot of different steroids and then the results is going to get back because there's going to be a pretty — a lot of problem, is not going to be normal.

But I have to discard taking anything for say, six to eight weeks or so.

And then go to the doctor, whatever, then I think if everything's back to normal, I think you're doing pretty much the right thing.

Some people would — are getting, you know, some better results as far as their different — the sperm count now and their liver panel results coming back, you're still kind of high.

That's — you know, you need to step — take a look back and see, is this all worth it for you, or are you getting, you know — is the push yourself is really (INAUDIBLE)”

View On Steroid Use and Genetics In The 90's

Tom Platz:  “Is the risk worth the effort?  How do you feel about competing in today's arena, on today's stage, you know?”

Chris Cormier:  “I don't think that the problem I have (INAUDIBLE) when people are acting like it's all about drugs.

And you know, I was — it's — you know, it seem to put a bad taste in your mouth when you see people at this stage is really all like — they brag about how they like to take steroids, how they like to (INAUDIBLE) you know?

Because I'm still one of the guys that like to push hard and train intensely.

And you know, I still want to see exactly what I can do as far as I can push myself to get the development that I was looking for, and you know, from — when I started this whole crusade.”

Tom Platz:  “Do you ever — do you ever think to yourself that, Geez, I think we're pushing genetics to the ultimate edge that it's getting pretty risky?”

Chris Cormier:  “Sometimes, yeah.”

Tom Platz:  “Like when (INAUDIBLE) he has problems and you're like (INAUDIBLE) or Andreas Munzer, does it like make you think go on — take two steps backwards and go, “Wait a minute”?

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah, definitely.  You have to be crazy not to.

And you'd think that, oh, it won't happen to me.  I think it could happen to anyone.”

[38:08]  If you don't know who Andreas Munzer is, I highly recommend you go look at his story.

He's an example of a guy who basically red lined his body for bodybuilding year-round.

The infamous Andreas Munzer death cycle…

I don't know if it's legitimate or not.

I should do a video on that too.

His use was an example of insane levels of abuse, and it ended his life in his 30s.

That's what they're referring to right here.

Obviously, the goal is to have a long healthy life, while not becoming a bodybuilding statistic.

That's what the purpose of these interviews is supposed to be for in the first place, rather than to shed light on what dosages you should be using.

They're not trying to promote use, they're trying to shed light on the deaths themselves.

I'm surprised that Munzer's passing wasn't brought up earlier.

This is the first interview where they brought up notable deaths from a result of abuse.

Chris Cormier's Advice For Upcoming Bodybuilders

Tom Platz:  “Is there any suggestions or any words of wisdom you might give our viewers who were looking at you (INAUDIBLE) that's where I want to be in life?”

Chris Cormier:  “I think that, first of all, I would suggest, if you really don't have what it takes to be one of those guys, you need to really be honest with yourself and say, “I could appreciate what they're doing, but it is not for me to step, you know, that far into what's dangerous and what's, you know, large (INAUDIBLE) you know, what's good for yourself.

Then, secondly, I suggest if you did, you know, want to compete, and you're not going to go pro and whatever, I wouldn't do anything dangerous, and I wouldn't do — if you plan on taking it, then first I would suggest not to, you know, it's better not to and live longer, and you got to, you know, like, you know, you're going to have a lot easier life all around if you didn't. 

But if we did choose to, then I would suggest taking a little as possible to get some results that you're looking for like I said.”

Tom Platz:  “So, you think the steroids and the GH and the insulin and other agents can limit your life and put more stress in your body?”

Chris Cormier:  “I would say so.”

Bodybuilding's Chemical Warfare

Tom Platz:  “Okay, I mean, I'm just going to understand, of course, and I've been where you are.  

I've retired some time ago, but I'm watching it — our sport progress.

And you know, I don't — it's no — it seems to have gotten to the point now, where it's maybe — I don't — you should answer this rather than me, but is it chemical warfare now?”

Chris Cormier:  “In some ways, yeah.  I would — I would say yeah.

I mean, when you're on out there away from home and you've taken different things, you know, I've been places and get a lot of bloody noses and things of that nature.

You know, you start to, Oh my god, what's going on?  

Or, you know, (INAUDIBLE) stuck here — and stuck in this period (INAUDIBLE)”

[41:22]  If you have a bloody nose while you're running steroids I can almost guarantee it's blood pressure related.

Check your blood pressure.

High blood pressure is probably the number one easily preventable health risk in bodybuilding that ends up hurting a lot of guys down the road.

It goes completely overlooked quite often because guys will just walk around with chronic stage 1 or even stage 2 hypertension for years and not even realize it.

One of my best friends at age 21 had a pulmonary embolism from having a blood clot in his calf that traveled up to his brain.

He had no idea it was there because he was walking around with chronically high blood pressure.

I'm not sure if he was on steroids at the time, but it was 100% preventable.

You don't want something like that to happen to you.

Keep an eye on your blood pressure.

It's a super easy thing to maintain to just by getting in your magnesium, your potassium, your sodium, your water, having a proper diet, avoiding excessively aromatizing compounds, keeping an eye on your blood pressure, and just not being stupid.

Tom Platz:  “On an annual basis, say, if like…”

[42:36]  When I was younger, I remember literally walking inside the University or sitting in a class, and I would just randomly get nosebleeds because my blood pressure was so high from the Dianabol I was on.

I would get a nosebleed in the squat rack too when I was doing my sets.

Even when I was a bouncer downtown, I remember there were a couple of times that I'd have to go to the bathroom in the middle of my shift because my nose would start bleeding while I was standing at the front door.

Don't put yourself in that situation.

Chris Cormier's Yearly Steroid Expense

Tom Platz:  “If we look at the last few years back, understanding that the growth hormone and expense of that I think you mentioned up to 9 cc's …”

Chris Cormier:  “9 IUs, yeah.”

Tom Platz:  “9 IUs, I'm sorry.  You can tell growth wasn't around when I was competing.

At least it was around when I bought a new car instead.

What's the annual expenditure approximately on getting ready for an event?”

[43:38]  It's interesting, Tom Platz just said it was around in his era, and his era is the 80's.

A lot of people think that no one used growth hormone in the 80's, and it was a practice introduced in the 90's.

Tom Platz:  “A rough number on that.”

Chris Cormier:  “Close around $5,000 to — some people may go up to $10,000 or so …

At least $5,000.

Tom Platz:  “That's even with the growth hormone being involved in, you know …”

Chris Cormier:  “That's at a minimum, yeah.”

Tom Platz:  “So, you say, $5,000, $10,000 minimum?

So, it can go as high as …”

Chris Cormier:  “Depends on the person, you know?”

Tom Platz:  “I have heard up to $100,000”

Chris Cormier:  “It can go up.  I've put — some of the things I've done, I've done with $5,000 in that area.  That's all the drug use (INAUDIBLE) it depend on what kind of deals you're getting, and, you know …”

Tom Platz:  “… what's available, and of course, how much the price of it, and …”

Chris Cormier:  “Yes.  Because as I said, you know, I don't think — and that's not even a big number for what I'm doing.

That's whatever I achieved on that money for stuff is — I think is pretty good.”

The Open Use Of Drugs Through Doctors

Tom Platz:  “And you've — do you think it would be healthier if it was not classified as a class 3 drug and it was a (INAUDIBLE) through doctor or medical intervention?”

Chris Cormier:  “Definitely.  In other countries, you — that's available like that, have doctors and people that work closely with you.

Because it's going to — people are going to do it anyway, they're going to do it no matter what the cause, no matter what the kind of trouble you can get into.

It's going to happen and you see it every day.”

[45:40]  I 100% agree with that.

Chris Cormier:  “It's also in the bodybuilding but it's also (INAUDIBLE) on football and track and you know, things that — sports like that.

Gymnastics, they're getting all of the time; swimming, and all that stuff.

Tom Platz:  “I think it's worse now than it's ever been in all sports.”

Chris Cormier:  “Definitely.  There's junior high school kids just taking pills and doing whatever.

It's pretty — it's amazing.”

Chris Cormier's Take On How Old A Person Should Be To Take Steroids

Tom Platz:  “And how old do you think a person should be before considering a possible steroid program?

We're not making recommendations here, of course.

We're not pro-steroids, we're merely talking about reality, but …”

Chris Cormier:  “I would suggest educating yourself on as many as long as you can stand it.  

And wait as long as you can.”

You know, if you can be in your mid-20's, or upper 20's and that would be a lot better than, you know, starting off, you know, early teens or whatever.”

[46:37]  I mostly agree with that.

I did a video and article on this recently too, about when a responsible time to start using would be, if your use was inevitable.

It's not about when, as I'm not trying to say you should start.

The entire point of the article was to state that if you're dead set on doing it, regardless of what people advise, then take these precautions into consideration.

Basically, the chances of you, having the knowledge to, first of all, even implement pharmacology in a safe and effective manner, where you're probably not just wasting it, or at least the majority of it, is very unlikely at a young age, regardless of how much research you think you've done.

I promise you, it takes years to understand this stuff thoroughly, as well as diet and training.

The diet and training part itself takes a couple of years, at least, to really come into your own and understand.

It's not just about you hitting your macros, it's not just about getting enough protein in, it goes far beyond that.

The pharmacology is a whole new ballgame.

Even once you get into that and you think you know everything, you'll learned a million new things over the next 5 to 10 years.

I'm still learning to this day.

I don't even think my knowledge was thorough enough when I started, and I wish I waited until a lot later to get into performance enhancement.

I advise you to check out this article, “My Number 1 Piece Of Advice If You Are Going To Use Steroids.”

Chris Cormier On Roid Rage

Tom Platz:  “I understand you do have health concerns and makes total sense that you would have health concerns and the look at the risk versus the benefit.

And this is your chosen profession, and you pursue it along those lines.

I think every athlete I speak with feels the same way.

And I hear that coming from you, a concern, but yet, not to commit suicide.

You got to do it as strategically and as healthy as possible in order to compete in that arena.

This stuff that we read about in the magazines called roid rage, does that really exist in your opinion?”

Chris Cormier:  “I think it exists.

But (INAUDIBLE) individuals that are — that are (INAUDIBLE) temper, and it's just heightened it.

I think some of you have learned how to control that — it is an aggressive drug, it can make you really aggressive, you're really aggressive.

And as you're going to be, you know, standard at risk in getting really upset and not being able to control yourself.

I remember the first two years I was taken at it.

And I had to go, Wait a minute (INAUDIBLE)

A little bit more excited and, you know, it's just little — just someone crossing the street, you know, but it's — Yeah, I think — I think it's real.

But I think people label a lot of people have roid rage, when is that really roid rage?

I mean, you don't have to be on a cycle to get really mad.”

[49:51]  It definitely just exacerbates your current state and the kind of a person you are in my opinion.

I don't think it's going to make some really chill, mellow dude a psycho at all.

I think it's going to make a guy who's a psycho more of a psycho though for sure.

Chris Cormier:  “People prove that every day in the news.”

Tom Platz:  “Do you think it enhances your natural aggressiveness.”

Chris Cormier:  “Definitely.”

Tom Platz:  “Or your natural personality to some degree?”

Chris Cormier:  “Definitely.”

Masking Agents Use

Tom Platz:  “One of the things that I also want to discuss tonight would be masking agents of any kinds. 

I mean, granted that you were able to get around the diuretic test based upon, you know, limiting your — time you're on certain diuretics and taking other (INAUDIBLE).

Are there any masking agents that you ever utilized that were a benefit?”

[50:38]  I'm not sure why this is such a prominent question.

I don't think there's anything that's going to trick a test into thinking there's nothing in your system if the test was a legitimate test to begin with.

For example, how could you take a Lasix and then pop another pill and have it trick a test into not thinking there's Lasix in your system?

I don't know, it seems like an odd question.

Chris Cormier:  “No.  Yeah, you hear about things, this and that, but I'm not one to try to take a chance on some (INAUDIBLE)”

Tom Platz:  “How about things like Esiclene, where you inject into the muscle itself to temporarily (INAUDIBLE) the tissue, and is that of any benefit in your protocol?”

Chris Cormier:  “Yes, that's definitely another benefit that people can, you know, probably put you up another spot or two if you — if you had Esiclene and you had the right — be in the right places and, you know —

But a lot of people are abusing different effect — different substances like that.

And it's just don't (INAUDIBLE) it's not what we started out to do.

If that was the case, then why try to train your calves when you could just be sticking yourself with all kinds of different things.

And you know, I'm just — like I said, I still like to see what I can do myself.”

Chris Cormier's Take On A Complete Steroid Ban In Competitions

Tom Platz:  “It makes me — when you said that, “still like to see what I could do myself,” if there was a test where nobody could take anything, otherwise, they'd be bust immediately.

If there was a really, you know, test that would create a fair playing field, and if drugs were completely eradicated, would you be in favor of that?”

Chris Cormier:  “Oh, yeah.

Yeah, let's see what — let's see what we all can do.

Yeah, definitely.”

Tom Platz:  “I've often — and I've often thought about that.

And if we could really have this test where no one could really pass the test and use any kind of drugs.

Guys like yourself that, you know, they're doing real well, they're competing in all the top shows, and placing real high, and it's like — it's like — you know, it's like, it's getting old.”

Chris Cormier:  “Oh, yeah, I would love — I'd love that.”

Tom Platz:  “It's what I hear and that's sort of the way I feel, but I'm not going to …”

Chris Cormier:  “But it's just — you know, like I said, if (INAUDIBLE) by the rules and everyone's gonna do, you know, exactly what, you know, just — yeah, that would be great.”

Androstene Use

Tom Platz:  “Just an interesting point that you brought — you brought up that I sort of thought about for a second.

Besides the, you know, the drugs like the steroids and the GHs and the insulin and the diuretics, are there any other like Androstene, is there anything like that you've utilized that would you feel is definitely worthy of calling it steroid-like substance?”

Chris Cormier:  “I think Androstene is good.

I have tested myself and only used an Androstene for a period of time.

Training totally without steroids and still pushed some pretty good weight.”

Tom Platz:  “Do you ever use in conjunction with steroids?”

Chris Cormier:  “No.”

Tom Platz:  “It's usually in the offseason.”

Chris Cormier:  “No, never.  If I were going to use Androstene, I use it by itself.”

Post-Cycle Therapy (PCT)

Tom Platz:  “In the offseason after you've done taken been taking steroids, you know, during pre-season and the contest is over, are there any agents you use to bring your testosterone back to natural levels, or HCG or …”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah, I use HCG or the Clomid.  I use those two …”

Tom Platz:  “Together?”

Chris Cormier:  “I used them together before.

And I use, you know, pretty good amounts of HCG.  

It's good, you know, if you can get a hold of whatever (INAUDIBLE) then I just — I just relax for a while and just take time off.”

Tom Platz:  “Just let it go back naturally?”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah, uh-huh.”

Tom Platz:  “Some of the amounts of Clomid or HCG, any idea dosages do you recall?”

Chris Cormier:  “Umm… Usually 10,000 IUs of the HCG and I'd take that a couple of times per week.”

[54:54]  I thought he was going to completely forget about the dosages because he doesn't actually PCT, but maybe he does.

Tom Platz:  “And Clomid would be like tablet wise?”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah.  I don't remember the milligrams on those, but I would take that every day for about a week or so.  Maybe like three to four tabs a day.”

[55:20]  So that would probably be anywhere from 100 to 200 mg of Clomid if he's taking that many tabs per day.

Chris Cormier's Take On Nolvadex

Tom Platz:  “Do you think Nolvadex is useful occasionally?”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah.  But I guess recently (INAUDIBLE) started to believe that it's — pretty toxic to your liver.

And you know, it's not exactly what people thought it was at first, so …

And also, it has some way of fighting against your natural growth hormone levels.”

[55:47]  That's the same thing that Ronnie Coleman was talking about in the interview he did.

Obviously, these bodybuilders must talk and share theories with each other because that was the exact same thing Ronnie was talking about, how Nolvadex hinders IGF-1.

Tom Platz:  “Yeah, I've heard that stated by a number of guys.  Yeah.”

Chris Cormier:  “Some people started shying away from Nolvadex.  I'm one of them.”

Teslac Use

Tom Platz:  “Is there anything — other blocking agent, like, that you would consider replacing Nolvadex?”

Chris Cormier:  “There is — it's slipping my mind right now.”

Tom Platz:  “Proviron?”

Chris Cormier:  “There was another one.  It's a 50 mg drug.”

Tom Platz:  “Oh, the T …”

Chris Cormier:  “Teslac.  Teslac.”

Tom Platz:  “You think that's a worthy substance?”

Chris Cormier:  “It's really good.”

Tom Platz:  “And how long would you take that, a short duration?”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah, for the duration of the cycle.  For the whole cycle, I would take that.”

Tom Platz:  “All during the cycle?”  I see. I see.  So if you're …”

Chris Cormier:  “50 mg on up to 200 mg, which was in the course of the competition.”

Tom Platz:  “And then do you just stop?  Or, do you get off slowly?”

Chris Cormier:  “I would get off slowly.  And then I would just stop everything then.”

Tom Platz:  “So, it's a 15-week cycle or something like that?”

Chris Cormier:  “If you can get that much, yeah.”

Tom Platz:  “Yeah.  That might be something …”

Chris Cormier:  “If you can only get one bottle this time then, you know, you deal with that.”

Chris Cormier's Scariest Injection Experience

Tom Platz:  “You deal with that.  I understand.  I understand.

Did anything scary ever happened to you that gave you an ill effect or even a look that wasn't …”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah, one time I ended up — I tried to inject it to my calves to see what happen if …”

[58:00]  Calves are one of the most nerve dense areas.

I'm telling you, do not pin your calves.

Chris Cormier:  “You know, for looking, you know (INAUDIBLE) but I injected into it until it was really painful (INAUDIBLE) and it was …”

[58:18]  Even if you get it perfect, it's still going to cripple you probably just from the pain.

Tom Platz:  “What was it you injected that …”

Chris Cormier:  “It was a regular testosterone. 

It wasn't even like a Equipoise. 

I mean, not like a small in size type thing.

But people nowadays, they'll shoot it like all over the body, from biceps to triceps to — I think you (INAUDIBLE) want to do because you know — you don't know what's under you, like, you know, you're shooting in the dark, you know?

And it's really dangerous, you can hit some nerves or create some damage, you have no idea what you're going to do, you know?

But you know, I put some on my calves — I don't know if the muscle is atrophied a little (INAUDIBLE) right there.

So, like the muscle is not really there anymore.

So, it was enough for me right there.  

I don't do anything like that anymore.”

Tom Platz:  “Some kind of tissue damage.”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah, tissue damage.”

[59:18]  It might have been nerve damage.

Now, he can't get proper circulation there.

I don't know, but it's a good reason why you shouldn't pin your calves.

Not that I feel many people do, but still, I know some people who have tried doing Synthol protocols in their calves.

They've had to get anatomy charts that show where the nerves run down their calves to make sure they pin in spots that aren't going to hit their nerves.

It seems way too intense for me, and I feel for most people.

Chris Cormier:  “It's not — I don't know.  It's not what it's meant to do.”

Chris Cormier's Caloric Intake

Tom Platz:  “If we float in now to just discuss food, okay, it's the easy stuff now.

I mean, how many calories do you eat a day?

Chris Cormier:  “Well, that varies also.

And I'm not a really big eater, but it would be — I've had 4,000 something calorie diets at times.”

[1:00:20]  It sounds like to him, 4,000 is a lot.

That just goes to show again, a top Olympia caliber competitor doesn't need to eat 10,000 calories to grow, just like you don't need to.

At the end of the day, if you're in a surplus, you're going to gain muscle and some fat.

The more you overspill past that surplus of just unnecessarily cranking your calories up, you're just gaining more fat and not gaining more muscle.

Don't overeat because you saw a diet in a magazine that says Jay Cutler eats 10,000 calories because it's probably not the case.

Tom Platz:  “For a contest, do you eat something closer to (INAUDIBLE) calories, total calories?”

Chris Cormier:  “It's when I eat more in contest or pre-contest.”

Tom Platz:  “More for on?  (INAUDIBLE) can you eat anything you want?

I mean, do you eat ice cream, cake, cookies, candy, all kinds of stuff and get in shape?”

Chris Cormier:  “I think I'll eat a cookie or so”

Tom Platz:  “So, you can eat more.”

Chris Cormier:  “I can eat more cookies per week, yeah.

And a couple of days or sometimes every day I can have a cookie.”

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  So, you eat more junk food, if you will, just to keep you from filling weight.”

Chris Cormier:  “Just to keep your sanity, yeah.”

Protein, Carbohydrate, Fat Macronutrient Ratios

Tom Platz:  “In regards to like a normal offseason versus on season now.  

The calories may change but as far as ratios of protein, carbohydrates, and fats, do you record those things?”

Chris Cormier:  “I've done it before, yes.

Lately, I've been gone by what I see in the mirror.

You know, if I'm — I wake up (INAUDIBLE) the day before, I know I'll repeat what I'm doing.  

And if I need to make change, then I would raise or lower my carbohydrates, or raise or lower my proteins.”

Tom Platz:  “In terms of grams, any idea how many grams of protein you consume a day offseason versus on season?”

Chris Cormier:  “It can go up to like between 300 to 500.  I may …”

[1:02:26]  So many guys think everyone is eating too much protein, and you only need to have 0.6-0.8 grams per pound bodyweight, and one gram per pound is more than enough.

When you're discussing this topic in the context of professional bodybuilders using exogenous androgens with increased levels of protein synthesis and 260-plus pound lean physiques, studies on untrained skinny dudes are out the window at that point.

We're not talking about your natural guy and his ability to synthesize 30 grams per meal, or whatever the science is saying.

We're talking about Olympia bodybuilders here, and they're eating on average 300 to 500 grams of protein per day based on what I've heard in these interviews.

It seems pretty consistent.

It's funny because I always see comments in the comments section that are trying to critique the bodybuilders and say they're eating too much protein and they're stupid.

Well, dude, maybe that's what it takes at that level.

They're not 170-pound guys here trying to get to 5% body fat at 155.

It's a bit of a different context, and applying the protein studies to these kind of guys is out the window in my opinion.

Tom Platz:  “300, 500 grams of protein?”

Chris Cormier:  “Right, of protein.”

Tom Platz:  “Okay, and then in the season?  In the season and then also in …”

Chris Cormier:  “Offseason is probably low as more carbohydrates in the offseason.”

Tom Platz:  “I see.”

Chris Cormier:  “Than anything, and then …”

Tom Platz:  “So, the carbohydrates actually go lower in season?”

Chris Cormier:  “Right.  Pretty low.”

Tom Platz:  “So, they would be like gram-wise …”

[1:03:51]  That's pretty consistent I feel like, where offseason, if you're trying to build muscle, you would increase your carbohydrate intake, lower your protein to accommodate that increase of carbs, carbs are protein-sparing, people know that.

And then, as you get deeper into a contest prep phase, you start to slowly lower your carbohydrates and increase your protein to retain tissue.

That's pretty consistent with what I've seen over the years.

Chris Cormier:  “I'm not exactly sure gram-wise.”

Tom Platz:  “Approximately.”

Chris Cormier:  “It's really a few cups of rice in the morning, and then in the evening, a couple potatoes or something like that, but between there, it's just all protein and then …”

Tom Platz:  “Is that like eight weeks out?”

Chris Cormier:  “… and vegetables from — yeah, 8 weeks, yeah.”

Tom Platz:  “Okay.  And then fat, probably gram-wise.”

Chris Cormier:  “Fat — (INAUDIBLE)”

Tom Platz:  “Do you eat steak?”

Chris Cormier:  “I would — I would — I'll eat steaks and also like avocados and, you know, something like MCT oils, stuff like that.”

Tom Platz:  “So, fats more moderate as you …”

[1:04:58]  MCT oil is the oil that is typically in Synthol, by the way.

It's funny when people talk poorly about Synthol or talk about this wonder drug “Synthol” and how sketchy it is, and in the end, it's literally just sterile MCT oil.

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah, exactly.  High protein, moderate fat, some low to medium carbohydrates.”

Always Count Your Macros, Micros, and Calories

Tom Platz:  “The way what I hear from you, you used to count earlier on, and when you're already (INAUDIBLE) now you go by instinct and feel and pretty much know.

Interesting, sounds like being an artist to some degree, isn't it, sort of?”

Chris Cormier:  “Yeah.  You know, after a while, you can sort of, you know, manipulate what your body is going to do despite what you eat the day before.

And, you know, those two days and trying to see a change.”

[1:05:55]  Something I recommend to you guys, especially if it's your first couple of years, meticulously count macros, micros, and just overall calories, and learn how your body works inside out.

And then, eventually, you get to a point like this guy here, where he can just eyeball his food and know exactly how his body is going to respond.

I can look at a piece of chicken right now without even weighing it, and can probably tell you the amount of calories, give or take 20 calories, how many calories it's going to be, how many grams of protein it's going to be, how much fat is in it, etc.

Eventually, you're going to learn your body inside out.

That's also my number one tip when it comes to dieting.

If you're just starting out, don't think that you can just eyeball stuff and figure it out because that's how you're either:

A), never going to get shredded; or B), not grow sufficiently; or C), get fat as hell.

Tom Platz On Educating Aspiring Bodybuilders

Tom Platz:  “The sport of bodybuilding is my neighborhood we come from, and I would never want to do anything to really, you know,  damage or expose dirty laundry.

You know, my goal here is not to expose dirty laundry of our sport or anybody else's sport from this video, but merely to use as an educational source of material to where the up and coming guy can go, here is the way it really is.

Here's somebody that's on top, and in fact, this guy's on top, you don't know who he is but he is on top okay.

And he's telling the way he really sees it, the way he really feels about it, and he does have concerns about his health.

And, like all the guys I spoke to, they have concerns about their health, and they're looking at it as a benefit to risk ratio, and what's necessary to do to compete in today's arena.

Some felt that they needed to — it was getting too far out of hand, like with yourself, it's too far out of hand, and it's getting crazy, and …

But a lot of — most of the top guys seem to have a control.

They're like not nuts, there's people — as much as the amateurs are who are viewing the pros going “more is better,” it's, in fact, you know, “more is better to point,” as I'm hearing it most of the day.

But it's like I'm seeing it — there's a little — there's a centeredness and there's a regime and a focus and a controlled method of approaching the drugs.

And you're concerned with health, and the risk episode you may have run into, you consider don't want to have that happen again.

So, you seek the advice about drug testing and doctors and so on, which is interesting, I think, for the fans to hear — I mean, the up and coming guys to hear that.

This not just take everything and get your hands on, and hope for the best, you know?”

Chris Cormier:  “Right.”

Tom Platz:  “But again, I — the reason we're doing this foremost — I'm speaking to the audience at this point.

The reason we're doing this is not to expose anyone, not to expose dirty laundry of any sport, especially sport that we all come from, but merely serve as an educational tool and hopes that they'll be less abusive procedures.

Maybe less use to point towards a healthier, cleaner approach to sport, in general.

And I'm just to the point now where I don't want to see any more of my friends' lives in (INAUDIBLE) mostly amateurs, friends' lives endangered.

And it's — I really am — some of — some of you may disagree, but I'm very happy and pleased to address the issues in terms of honesty.

I think we should do more of that, rather than just avoiding the issue and talking about the issue as if it doesn't exist.

It does exist in the various men you hear — you heard spoke today on this tape.

I commend and I thank you very much for providing this insight into the reality of the sport and hopefully, we can make a difference.

And we have made a difference in the way you see things.

Thank you very much for being here.

Appreciate it.”

Conclusion On Tom Platz's Backstage Secret Of The Pros

[1:09:47]  That pretty much wraps up this series.

Hopefully, you guys found that as interesting as I did, as insightful, and just enlightening in general.

It really puts things in perspective and can also check a lot of egos, too.

A lot of guys think the secret is “more is better,” and “my next cycle is going to be the one that blows me up,” and then, “I'm going to get a pro card, I'm going to be at the Olympia.”

If you can't get your pro card off of what these guys are taking, it's probably not in the cards for you.

At least with basketball and soccer and stuff, you can play recreationally and enjoy it, but with bodybuilding, it's tough to just say you should sauce your face off because if you're not going to be competing at a high level, there's no benefit to weighing 260 year-round.

Let's put things in perspective guys, and don't kill yourself trying to get these superhero physiques.

If it's not in the cards for you, don't push your body past what it can handle.

I know there's going to be a lot of people that think these guys are lying because they want to underplay their use and not seem like they use very much.

Frankly, I actually believe them, and I just think they're genetic anomalies who probably have Myostatin mutations, sensitive androgen receptors, and hyper-response to training and drugs in general.

The genetics these top guys have would be impossible for you or I to replicate no matter how much drugs you use (unless you happen to be a genetic anomaly too).

There are certain things in your genetic code that you just can't make up for.

If your body produces a bunch of Myostatin in response to androgens, and another guy doesn't, there's absolutely nothing you can do until new developments in drug pharmacology come out.

Chris Cormier's Steroid Cycle

After listening to the entire interview, at the peak of Chris Cormier's steroid cycle dosages pre-contest, he claims his use broke down to the following:

Equipoise – 300 mg/week
Primobolan – 400 mg/week
Growth Hormone – 4-9IUs/day
Testosterone – 800 mg/week
Winstrol – 300 to 450 mg/week
Halotestin – 30 to 40mg/day
Insulin – Three or four doses of 12 to 15 IUs/day
Teslac – 50 to 200 mg/day

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