This interview discussing Lee Priest's steroid cycle was recorded by Tom Platz in the 90's.
This will give an inside look into what top pros with top 0.0001% genetics were doing in the 90's to achieve their physiques.
Obviously he could be lying, but I don't see any reason for him to lie, other than to downplay how much of an abuser he could come across as.
These interviews were supposed to be anonymous, but Lee was the only bodybuilder who opted to be completely transparent and not have his face blurred out or his voice changed in post-production to hide who he is.
I personally think that he's probably telling the truth.
But, you guys can be the judge, and I'll just comment along the way.
What Prompted Lee Priest To Use Steroids
Tom Platz: “My first question basically, would be, what situation in your life or what specific circumstance brought you to the need or the feeling or desire that —
What really made you feel that you had to take steroids in order to compete, or was there a particular time in your career that you felt that that was the case?”
Lee Priest: “It wasn't really like a need to or like a had to.
It's more like a personal choice because I'd won a few national titles beforehand, and then a few shows.
And then, as the level got harder, the guys were getting bigger.
So, it came down to more of a should or should not, I'll just do it for an experiment.
I just decided to give it a go, take a small dosage, see how it affected me.
So, it wasn't like a had to because I was winning shows anyway without them beforehand.
And I trained for like five or six years before I've even done my first course on steroids.
So, it's like one of those things after competing in such a high level.
I just want to go ahead and give it a go and see how they worked.”
What Age Did Lee Priest Start Using Steroids?
Tom Platz: “You mentioned you were competing five or six years before you took steroids.
So, how old were you when you first started taking steroids?”
Lee Priest: “I was 19.”
Tom Platz: “19? Since we're …”
[2:10] See a lot of guys think he started way younger than that.
Many think he started at 16 years old.
It's interesting to hear him say he started at 19.
I don't know if it's truthful or not.
This is what Lee looked like at only 16 years old.
I see no reason why he would lie though, other than the obvious trying to downplay his usage.
To me, Lee doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would lie about his use.
He's very short, so he can pack on size much easier than a taller bodybuilder.
Five pounds on him is going to look like 20 pounds on a really tall guy.
Is it completely unorthodox to think that somebody could have looked the way he did at 16 naturally?
Honestly, I have no idea because I have nowhere near the genetics of this guy, so I'm not really sure.
Only Lee knows for sure.
The Steroids Lee Priest Chose To Use
Tom Platz: “So, we're speaking about steroids at this point.
What specific steroids do you find effective in your training?”
Lee Priest: “I've always stuck to the basic like Deca.
It was the very first one I used when I was 19, and put on 20 pounds and did a six-week course on it.
That's all I used like 2 cc's a week.
And then I put on 20 pounds.
Yeah, sure, there's some water weight.”
[3:21] I guess depending on the concentration of Deca at the time, maybe Lee took anywhere from 200 to 600 mg a week, approximately.
Obviously, quantifying in cc's isn't a way of measuring actual dosages as concentrations could vary product to product depending on how the company producing it decided to dose it.
I'm assuming these guys were using mostly pharma-grade steroids back then, or most of it was probably more so pharma than UGL.
I don't really know to be honest, but it could be anywhere from 100 mg/mL up to 300 mg/mL.
Just an educated guess, I'm going to say he's probably taking either 200 or 400 mg a week in this cycle reference.
Lee Priest: “But then, even now, I stick to the basics like Deca, Primobolan.
I don't like Testosterone also, I stay away from Testosterones, but just the basics like that.
So, I've never really delved into the science.
You have some guys like stacking six or seven (INAUDIBLE) always do.”
[4:20] The interesting thing about that, he's talking about how he likes Nandrolone, which is a 19-nor, and then you have Primobolan, a DHT derivative.
And he doesn't have any Androstane in his preferable cycle whatsoever.
He has nothing that's aromatizing heavily into estrogen.
Lee Priest's Steroid Dosages
Tom Platz: “Like in terms of some of the drugs you just mentioned, steroids.
You just mentioned specific dosages.
Could you give us some idea of what specific dosages you use prior to a show and how long you use these dosages?”
Lee Priest: “Getting ready for a contest, I normally start dialing 12 weeks out.
So, I'll start with maybe like Stanozolol which is the same as Winstrol.
I'll take like two cc's every three days.
Then sometimes, I get sick of taking it or somewhat increased it to every four or five days, because I hate being a pin cushion.
Now, I'm taking one Anadrol 50 a day because like they're one — the worst on your liver, so I hate using them, but for keeping the size and strength, they're good, but I take one a day of them.
And then, I was taking two IUs of growth hormone every day for the last six weeks.
And then just Nolvadex.”
Tom Platz: “Okay.”
[5:31] To a lot of people, this cycle probably makes no sense.
But back in the day, you have to understand there's no internet, there's no cycle theory, there's nothing really, except for a few random underground encyclopedias of bodybuilding.
He's talking about using injectable Winstrol every three days when it has a half-life of 24 hours.
And then, 50 mg of Anadrol per day and two IUs of GH, which is not a significant amount.
If you're using pharma, that might put you at maybe a 300-350 ng/mL IGF-1, which isn't that far out of range.
It's not crazy high or anything.
And then he's talking about Nolvadex here, which I'm assuming he just uses to antagonize estrogen at the receptor to dry out a bit before a show.
Lee Priest: “Just about all getting ready for a contest.”
Deca and Primobolan Use During The Offseason
Tom Platz: “Okay. So, how about in the offseason then? Would you take anything?”
Lee Priest: “Off-season, I don't use too much.
It's more like I rely more on food and heavy training.
I normally go like maybe 5 months before I do another course in the offseason.
Now, I just take the basics like Deca, 2 cc's of Deca, 2 cc's of Primobolan for 8 weeks, then I go off of it for another three months before I do something else.
I've never really been a big believer like in, you know, people get the mentality where you need steroids — to grow you need steroids.
If you get that in your mentality then …”
[6:57] For growth phase, I guess he only uses around 200 – 400 mg of Deca and 200 mg of Primo.
It's kind of hard to tell based on varying concentrations.
I have no idea what the concentration is of what he's using, so when he refers to CC's, I'm just going to assume based on what most of those products are dosed at per milliliter.
Lee Priest: “But I might just use these like an assistance rather than rely on them.
That's why at contest time, I might take a little bit more because I'm doing more training, I'm doing more cardio.
So, like, even dieting, you cut your food back so recovery is much harder.
So the drugs might have helped me more for recovery than anything.”
How Many Weeks Away From A Contest Does Lee Priest Start Contest Prep
Tom Platz: “Is there a certain time during the year — I know you mentioned it was four week — four months prior to a show you start getting ready?”
Lee Priest: “Normally three to four months before a contest I'll start preparing.
And then I'll start — as soon as I start my diet, I start restricting the food.
I'll just start on one steroid like Stanozolol.
Retain the size and strength while I cut back the calories.
Then, maybe like six weeks before the show, that's when I start up the growth hormone.
Then, like 8 weeks, I put the Anadrol in, 8 weeks before the show.
I just start — I don't take them all at once from the beginning.
I just slowly start on one then increase the other.
As the show gets nearer, I start tapering off them again.”
Tom Platz: “It brings up a point prior to the show.”
[8:19] His pre-contest stack is more or less based on Winstrol.
I guess injectable Winstrol, which is obviously far more efficacious than oral, at least in practical application from what I've seen.
50 mg of Anadrol.
I don't know if he's titrating up or what the deal is.
It's kind of ambiguous here, but it sounds like pretty mild doses of Winstrol, Anadrol, and a couple IUs of GH.
That's nothing crazy whatsoever compared to what most guys are doing.
Tom Platz: “Do you stop taking steroids completely at certain point or do you continue steroids through the show?”
Lee Priest: “Normally, a week or two before I'll stop them.
I'm just so sick at taking them anyway because I really feel sometimes my stomach feels sick when I'm on them.
And I can't sleep sometimes, so I always look forward to stop taking the needles.
So, as soon as — the sooner, the better for me if the show comes close.
I just can't wait to get off them.
So, normally like a week or two before I'll stop them altogether.”
Tom Platz: “Depending upon the number of shows, I guess, you enter per year will determine how long you're on steroids for that — for that year.
Is there any specific time you don't take steroids or number of months, weeks that you don't take steroids at all during the year?”
Lee Priest: “Normally, if I — when I do my contest, I try to group them more together, so the shows are pretty close together.
But then like after a show, like a big show I did last year, I didn't touch them again for seven months.
I just went totally off them.
Had maybe a shot of Deca twice because I had sore elbows.
So maybe for the joints I took two shots of Deca, but that was about it for the whole seven months.”
Tom Platz: “So, your dosages are actually quite low…”
[9:51] He makes probably anyone feel like a drug abuser.
Because his doses are so mild, I don't know if he's telling the truth for sure.
Again, I see no reason why he would make this up.
I don't think he really cares, to be honest.
Tom Platz: “…compared to what I think people think about”
Lee Priest: “I've read magazines where they say, you know, guys use — professionals use these large amounts.
And we just sit down and we laugh about it, you know, we read it, you know, we spend $40,000 a year $50,000 to get ready for a contest.
People say we're dumb, but we're not that stupid.
It's like, if the prize money is $10,000, who's going to spend $50,000 to get ready for a contest?”
Tom Platz: “Yeah, I'm thinking one of the guys I was talking to earlier mentioned that, you know, at times it can be from $15,000 up to even $100,000 a year, and it's — you don't do anything like that?”
Lee Priest: “I can take my past experience, I did a big contest.
I didn't spend any more than $2,000.
And it's only because I started using a bit of growth hormone.
I've never used it prior to a few years ago, but before then, I wasn't spending more than $600 to get ready for show.”
Lee Priest's Take On Growth Hormone
Tom Platz: “Do you find the growth hormone to be the magic substance that it's touted to be?”
Lee Priest: “Not really.
It's like people say it's a wonder drug, but before I started using, I came in great shape, I came in hard and full.
I've started using — I'm not sure whether because I'm growing too each year.
Each year I'm like 10 pounds heavier.
So, I was like whether, you know, when contest time comes, I come in shape without it, and I come in shape using it.
So, whether it just adds to help keep that size, I'm not sure.
It's hard to say because when you're using the growth, you're using other ones with it.
So, it's hard to say whether the growth is doing anything.
I'd like to take the growth by itself to see whether it did anything or not because if you've been mixing drugs it's hard to say what's working, what isn't working, so …”
Tom Platz: “True. Have you taken it by itself?”
Lee Priest: “No, I haven't, so …”
Lee Priest's Take On Insulin Use
Tom Platz: “How about insulin, is that something that goes along with GH?”
Lee Priest: I've never — I've never tried.
I know a lot of guys that do, but to me, you know, I spoke to a doctor before and he says, for the small difference it makes, it's not worth the risk of becoming a diabetic.
Some people take too much, go into comas.
So, for me, like the risk of that it's not worth it, so I've never really messed around with insulin.”
[12:04] To me, this is so indicative of somebody who just has insane genetics.
He somewhat knows what he's talking about, obviously.
Who am I to critique what he's saying.
Just the way he describes the mechanism of action of drugs and what would happen if you took insulin and what not, it's pretty obvious that Lee is just a hyper-responder to whatever he takes.
Obviously, he's very cautious as well.
I mean, everyone's knowledge was pretty limited I would assume in the 90's about what these compounds actually do.
The fact that he barely touched GH, hadn't messed with insulin, low doses of gear, this guy was pretty much running baby cycles year-round and he was still massive.
It just goes to show the importance of genetics.
I've done a video on this before about not taking advice from guys with top tier genetics.
It's because of stuff like this because if a guy who responds to this is going to try and get a guy with average genetics to grow, it's probably not going to work out because his knowledge is limited to the scope of just insane hyper responding to everything that he does.
Lee Priest's Scariest Experience With Steroids
Tom Platz: “Well, did you have any scary episodes with things you may have taken?”
Lee Priest: “One time I bought some contaminated stuff, you know. Of course, when you're being pushed to the black market, you'll get guys out there who'll bottle anything to sell their steroids had some sort of — it was contaminated and got blood poisoning, so I sort of in bed for week and couldn't walk …”
[13:38] Ok, so he does buy underground UGL stuff.
Obviously, I wasn't around in the 90's to see what the UGL scene was like, but evidently there were cases where guys were getting contaminated product and whatnot, which means they weren't just exclusively using pharma grade gear.
Lee Priest: “And I had to get antibiotic, get shots for that.
So, stuff like that sort of makes you scared if you're buying stuff off the black market or stuff from different people.
Of course, it can be anything.
They'd be — could be selling cooking oil for all you know.
All the stuff could be put together in someone's dirty room.
So, stuff like that always scares you because it can — it does happen.
There was a case a couple of years ago, a guy died because he thought he was using growth hormone, but it was actually insulin. Someone (INAUDIBLE) too much (INAUDIBLE) went into a coma and died. So, people do anything to make money these days, so it's always scary.”
Tom Platz: “I guess you need to be careful upon where your sources …”
Lee Priest: “Exactly. So, the new stuff I got came from a friend, so …”
But he could get off somebody else, so it's always a risk you take, I guess, when you do any sport, really, so …
And whether you're a car driver, whenever you're going to hop into a car and race around and get killed.
It's luck of the draw, sometimes it's going to be bad, sometimes it'll be good, but if you get the bad stuff, you know, it can kill you straight away.”
Lee Priest's Outlook On Steroid Use In Sports
Tom Platz: “I mean, other than getting impure products or bogus products or counterfeit products, are there anything — how do you feel about the whole sport, in general, as far as the steroid issue? Is it something you wish wasn't there or it's there and you just tolerate?”
Lee Priest: “Sometimes you wish it wasn't there, but it's like for any sport, it's going to be there, so sometimes bodybuilding is like the poster child for steroid use.
You know, footballers use it, you know, the Chinese swim team use it.
Like, any sport you go, everyone use it, just (INAUDIBLE) looks at differently.
We get pointed at the most as being the users because, you know, most people that use steroids don't look like us, they're like, well, they must be using more, they must be taking more.
And I was like, I say it's hard, just accept it.
You know, you've got a choice, if you don't want to use it, you don't have to use it.
And there are shows out there to compete and we don't have to use it, but if you're good enough without it, you can compete with guys that use it.
Well, more luck to you, so …
(INAUDIBLE) have a little preference, you know, you can tell people the bad effects and tell them the good effects.
It's like drinking or smoking, you got to make your own choice whether you want to use it or not, you know?
Apparently, I don't want you ever touching it, yet the people go and use it anyway.
It comes down to personal preference and if you want to try it, you can.
If not, well, don't do it.”
Lee Priest's Take On Diuretic Use And Warnings
Tom Platz: “How about other items or drugs like diuretics.
Is it something that you feel works in terms of bodybuilding application?”
Lee Priest: “I think they do work because, you know, get a little bit of water you got left, but been through there's so many like Lasix I tried and I felt like near death trying Lasix.
It just like took everything out of me.
But there are some other ones out where you can use and which spares potassium which I find work well.
Even now they got natural herbal diuretics I've experimented with, and the herbal ones sometimes were just as good.
Sure, not exactly as great but yet they do the same job without serious side effects, you know, where you drain all the minerals out of your body because you're at a fine state your body fat is down.
You haven't got no minerals left in your body and you just drain everything out.
That's what a lot of deaths come from because you just drain everything out and you have a heart attack or just shut down.”
[19:07] It's definitely true.
Anytime I've seen a freak accident in bodybuilding, through personal friends or just through the grapevine, people in the local bodybuilding circuit, in terms of a dire health situation, it's been either accumulation of steroid use over the course of several decades or several years that leads to cardiovascular disease, stroke, heart attack, etc. or diuretic use leading to immediate consequences.
The only time where a healthy bodybuilder ends up dying that I've personally seen is through diuretic misuse.
That's why you have to be really careful about who you get as a coach and just taking advice from random people on the internet, or taking advice from random coaches.
You have no idea if they really know what they're doing or not.
I don't even really have advice for how to go about finding somebody credible or not, other than getting a coach vetted to you through people you trust in your social circle.
When it comes to diuretic use, a close friend of mine actually had a heart attack and near renal failure from diuretic misuse pre-contest, and he's my age.
He was sent to the hospital and almost died, and he was only 25 years old.
You have to be really careful about that stuff because you can easily accidentally throw off your electrolyte balance and end up in the hospital.
You're just taking shots in the dark, thinking you know how to pull water and fill out, and dry out and harden up.
It's so easy to throw everything off and send yourself to the ER, so be really careful about that stuff.
What he just said where the herbal stuff over the counter works really well, too, yeah, things like dandelion root work.
If you're lean enough for a show, you shouldn't need Lasix or something.
Obviously at a top bodybuilding level, I have no idea, to be honest.
Just from what I've seen, unless you're competing at a super high level, I don't think you need to be messing with things like Lasix, Aldactone, and other diuretics that are just too risky to mess with, unless you 100% know what you're doing.
Tom Platz: “What kind of dosages have you taken on some of the diuretics in terms of the …”
Lee Priest: “The diuretics? I've used like the Aldactone or Aldactazide.
I just take like half a one maybe two days before a show.
I think maybe 20 mg and the night before a show, I take a whole one.
You don't really need high amounts of diuretics to work.
Just so you know, if you're coming back, you're …”
[22:10] Aldactone is one of the worst diuretics you could use in my opinion by the way.
It's used as an anti-androgen for men who are transitioning from male to female, and it's just poor.
I don't think that it's very effective pre-contest.
It usually just flattens guys out and prevents them from filling back up by messing with aldosterone and re-uptake of everything.
The only thing that I've seen work well that wasn't too risky to mess with is a low dose of Dyazide, personally.
Ideally, you would just get lean enough, and you don't even need to use diuretic at all.
But obviously at a high level, there's things these guys are doing that I guess is a necessity for them to show up the way they need to, but the likelihood that you need to even touch a diuretic ever is very low.
Be careful with them because those are the things that are going to kill you instantly.
Lee Priest: “… three or four days before a show, and then you take it, excuse me, that might drain everything you've got.
But I always keep my fluid high.”
Tom Platz: “Regarding diuretics, it's — so, sometimes you use herbals, and sometimes you would use the Aldactone or the Aldactazide?
But it seems like — from what I hear, you're saying, it's like you use very little amounts of all the — including esoteric drugs.”
Lee Priest's Advice On Starting Steroids Using Low Dosages
Lee Priest: Yes. I've always been since I started I've always used small amounts.
I found a small amount work, you know.
Once — one time, I did try a large amount and it made no difference than the small amount.
So ever since then, I've always just stuck to small amounts.
Because, once you start using large amounts, it's going to benefit the guy who's selling it to you because he's making more money because you're using it quicker.
But yet, you know, 2 cc's to me works just as good as what 10 cc's does.”
[23:53] For somebody competing at the Olympia level, for him to say this kind of stuff, it should be really enlightening for a lot of guys watching this.
Because, you get into this mindset when you're trying to become a good bodybuilder that, “Okay, I've built muscle at this dosage, so next cycle I have to do more to keep building muscle.”
It's not always necessarily the case.
Myostatin works in a regulatory way, so that if you're always on the same dose, then your body is going to have a feedback mechanism of Myostatin to prevent you from gaining more.
And then, that puts you in a position where you probably do need to use more to continue gaining, but if you're going up and down, and you're not just doing a perma-blast, trying to perma-bulk for two years straight, the likelihood is you can probably get away with a lot less than you think.
I fell into this trap when I was younger, thinking I need at least 500 mg of Testosterone in every cycle or else I won't grow.
You'd be surprised how little you can probably get away with, and that is the exact reason why I regret what I used for my first steroid cycle.
Lee Priest definitely has more muscle than you, I'm assuming, definitely a significant amount more than me.
I was using doses higher than he was back when I was at my peak of usage.
Did I need it?
No, definitely not, especially, for what I was trying to do.
I've actually noticed that, too.
Even with my TRT, at first, I was on 200 mg a week.
And then I wanted to see how low I could get it for health reasons.
I started tapering down.
Muscle didn't fall off me though and I kept tapering down, and nothing changed.
I still held onto my muscle mass.
You'd be surprised that even half of what you're taking could probably accomplish the exact same thing.
It'll probably have you feeling less toxic, have better blood markers, and actually increase your longevity in the sport too.
Lee Priest: ” Some people get the impression (INAUDIBLE) if I'm taking 2 cc's and I gained 20 pounds, you know, 60 cc's I'll gain, you know, twice as much, three times the amount, you know, the more I take, but it doesn't work that way.”
Tom Platz: “Well, based upon the fact you take small amounts, would this be a suggestion?
Not that we're in this — with this particular video, or are we making suggestions or recommendations for drug use at all.
We're really confronting the issues.
But in terms of the viewers and the younger people coming up, younger guys and coming up, listening to this, your basic thoughts would be less is more.”
The “Secret” To Lee Priest's PED Use
Lee Priest: “Yes, I've always found (INAUDIBLE) everyone I speak to, I tell him that, but yet, some people have in their mind that they need large amounts because so many people tell them.
You know, the pros take this, they take that much, but yet, the pros don't.
Nearly amateur I've met takes twice the amount as a pro does, but because we're bigger than they are, say they had taken 1500 mg and we're bigger, they're thinking the pros aretaking 3000 mg.
But yet, as I said, I take maybe 200 mg of Deca, 200 milligrams of Primobolan per week.
I get good results from that, so you don't need large amounts.”
Lee Priest: “… a little bit on drugs which I'm going to use and spend the rest of money on food because, you know, the food is gonna work, so just train heavy on that.
But, you know, people want to get a quick fix straightaway, they want to get huge overnight.
But bodybuilding — building muscle takes years.
I'd recommend training, you know, five to six years before you even decide to use steroids.
[27:43] One thing he just mentioned, too, that is worth noting that I've noticed as well is, I used to always think, oh, the pros are doing something different, they're taking Increlex or they're taking some secret thing, or they're taking more than everyone else.
But the fact is, a lot of the amateurs are actually taking more than the pros, and the reason is that their genetic response is so terrible, which is why they're stuck at regional level shows, not even winning overalls.
They're using upwards of four, five, even six grams of steroids a week.
Genetics And Steroid Abuse In Bodybuilding
Then there are pros using less than a quarter of that and getting pro cards because of genetics.
That's just what it comes down to.
The amateurs think there's a secret, and they think the secret is more, and more, and more.
Whereas the pros, they're getting exactly where they want without even having to get to that point yet.
I think it's actually pretty common, amateurs using more than pros, if not, maybe the same amount, or maybe in some cases, pros more obviously.
There are obviously health-conscious amateurs who don't do that, but it's actually a pretty common scenario to have amateurs who are way overdoing it, thinking they just need to keep pushing the envelope to finally get that pro-size that they just can't get.
It's not the case, they're just chasing a pipe dream, it's never going to happen if their genetics are inferior.
Lee Priest: “It's like it's one of those things.
You got to build a foundation first, and then maybe if you want experiment and try them, you know, go ahead, but, you know, don't go crazy, thinking you're going to get big overnight and take large amounts, because you'll probably end up sick or dead.
You know, it's not going to make you any bigger taking a large quantity.”
Tom Platz: “So you wouldn't — you're not suggesting or are you, that steroids are magic … “
Lee Priest: “Far from it.
(INAUDIBLE) the genetics, if you don't have the willpower or determination upstairs, you can take all the drugs you want, you're never going to get anywhere, you know.
The guys who are champions today, any sport would be there without drugs.
You know, like, Ben Johnson, he still would have won the race without steroids.
It's like — he was using Stanozolol.
Like, I use Stanozolol before a contest.
I probably took more than him, but yet I could never beat him in a race.
The drug, certainly, make him run fast.
It's like, anyone (INAUDIBLE) look at bottles, like a bottle of stanozolol you see for animals, horses.
Now a horse, that's like 800 pounds more, takes 2 cc's every two weeks.
So, I was like, bodybuilders getting ready for shows would sometimes take 2 cc's every two days and I'm thinking like, humans that weigh, you know, 200 pounds, what are we taking two mls every two days for … “
[30:09] That kind of goes back to my video I did on Trenbolone where I discussed the dosage used in cattle to beef them up and compared it to the dosages guys are using for bodybuilding purposes that barely weigh 185 pounds, and that just ties it in perfectly.
You have guys using doses approved for vet usage in animals 10 times your size, using doses 10 times higher than the horses or the cattle are using.
That's a very logical way to put it, in my opinion, and it makes a lot of sense.
Lee Priest: “Probably needs, you know, 2 mls every two weeks, you know, it just comes down to common sense. So … “
Lee Priest's Take On Testing For Diuretic Use In The 90's
Tom Platz: “I understand that the current shows are only tested in terms of diuretics.
Are there — how'd you get around that, are there masking agents or … “
Lee Priest: “(INAUDIBLE) I start taking the herbal diuretics you can take it, it'll be out of your system in six hours.
So, there's always going to be a masking agent.
Then masking agents too can add to the danger, because people take more stuff to try and cover up what they're taking which can have a counteract or, you know, not mix well.
Some of the counteragents can be more dangerous than the steroids themselves.
So, even with the diuretics, you stick to the herbal ones you can do okay.
(INAUDIBLE) diuretics that you can take the night before and the next morning, you can be clean, so…”
Tom Platz: “And there's no trace of taking diuretic?
How about other esoteric drugs, like Esiclene or what …?”
Esiclene Use In The 90's
Lee Priest: “I've tried to Esiclene like in the offseason once just to see what it did.
And, you know, I heard a lot, I've been training properly with it.
So, you know, it swells the muscle up and inflamed the muscle red.
So I'm thinking, what's the point, you know – for the little bit of improvement it gives you.
It's not worth it then a couple of days later, it goes away.
So, for a contest, people like to use it, you know, to put a little bit more height on their bicep or in their calf.
But it covers up all the definition.
It's like, to me, it's like, if you go on stage and you're more defined, it's all an illusion on stage, you're going to look bigger anyway.
[32:11] Esiclene something it's not really talked about in the modern day.
I don't know if it's totally obsolete or if it's still used in top bodybuilding competitions or not.
Basically, what it does is after it's pinned, it inflames the muscle from the inside and artificially creates a swollen look that can enhance lagging body parts or give a certain pop that would have otherwise been unachievable.
Apparently, it was really popular in the 90s and that's what he is discussing right now.
I'm not even sure if it's available now.
In the 90s, it was pretty popular from what I can tell.
Lee Priest: “If you smooth that body part out, you know, it's just going to look soft and watery.
So I'd rather keep the definition and have the illusion of looking bigger, rather than trying the injection.
Again, it's like I think to — anything that you put in your body that inflames the muscle and does it to it, it can't be good for the body if you're inflaming it with an injection.
So, I tried that once and didn't like, it hurt too much, and it went all red and got hot.
It doesn't seem like a good thing to me.”
Dangers Of Steroid Administration
Tom Platz: “Are there any specific mistakes you've ever made that you'll never do again, in terms of …”
Lee Priest: “Maybe like I injected into my calves once, and (INAUDIBLE) the blood (INAUDIBLE), hit a nerve and all that sort of stuff.
So, I normally stick to the …”
[33:27] There are tons of nerves in your calves, so I highly recommend avoiding them.
If for some reason you wanted to pin your TRT in there or something, it's not a good spot.
It's one of the most nerve dense areas of your body, so definitely avoid your calves at all costs.
Lee Priest: “… probably the buttocks area or the shoulder area because people go through that stage where they think that if you inject it into that muscle, that muscle is going to grow bigger.
But it's, like, you know, people forget that buttocks is really a muscle.
The glutes area is a muscle.
So, if that was the case, guys would have glutes the size of a bus.”
Tom Platz: “That's true. Yes.”
Lee Priest: “It's like it doesn't work that way.
So it's like …”
[34:02] That's true.
Lee Priest: “… mistakes by trying to put in different body parts and hit nerves and do some of that.
Then, I heard of people injecting straight into their vein which is dangerous doing it because if you're going to inject into the vein and you've got some contaminated stuff.
Well, it'll get to your heart quicker than anything than you did.
So, there are just mistakes like that people will make.
You know, sometimes they'll keep injecting the same spot and they'll get a cyst or boil and have to get cut it or removed and get all the scar tissue.
So there are bad side effects.
But … “
Tom Platz: “Ever happened to yourself, as far as injecting the same site?”
Lee Priest: “I always keep it moving around.
Plus, I never use large amounts in the same area.
There are some guys that will put like maybe 10 cc's in one injection in one spot, and because that won't break down and move in the muscle, it just sits there, and then turns into a cysts or an abscess, so they have to get it cut out.”
Why Lee Priest Naturally Grew Gynecomastia (Gyno)?
Tom Platz: “How about any effects like gyno, gynecomastia?”
Lee Priest: “I had that from a young age myself naturally, so I have a high level of testosterone.
So the age of 13, I had one cut out naturally, so I could like excrete stuff out of my …”
[35:00] I already know everyone is going to say, Oh, he had gyno at 13 because he was on steroids then.
It does happen where guys, they're natural, just going through puberty, spiking natural testosterone spike aromatization levels and can lead to gynecomastia if there's not an optimal balance of androgens to estrogen.
Definitely possible and it's well documented that gyno in puberty does occur in a minority of individuals.
I wouldn't discount it entirely that it could have happened naturally.
Tom Platz: “So, at 13 — at 13 you had one cut out. So, you weren't taking steroids … “
Lee Priest: “No, I just have a high natural level of testosterone.
So it's like it just grew naturally.
But, I've never had them from drugs.”
Tom Platz: “Well, some of the newer non-drug like … “
[35:58] That actually makes me think that that's probably why he avoids Androstane in the first place like Testosterone, Dianabol and Equipoise.
Clearly, he has a genetic polymorphism that increases the amount of aromatization he has relative to somebody else.
Normally, when people go through puberty, Testosterone and DHT spikes, and the ratio of Testosterone aromatizing into Estrogen is still properly maintained, so you don't get gyno.
The only way you get gyno is if you have an imbalance where you don't have enough androgen relative to your estrogen.
Clearly, Lee has an increased genetic propensity to aromatize significantly more Testosterone into Estrogen.
Because simply having a high testosterone level doesn't mean that you're going to get gyno.
If you have a high level of aromatization caused by a genetic SNP, it can predispose you to that because of the way you metabolize sex hormones in your body.
That's probably the reason he avoids Testosterone to begin with, which is interesting.
Lee Priest's Unusually High Natural Testosterone Levels
Tom Platz: “Over-the-counter items like Andro, have you ever experimented with those?”
Lee Priest: “Not really.
I only have — in the offseason with me, I've never really been a big supplement user, well I stick to your basic protein powder.”
[37:21] I bet if you got a genetic test, too, it would show that he has the man boobs gene for sure.
Lee Priest: “Powder, maybe a carbohydrate drink.
But when it comes to — maybe a multivitamin.
But, all the other stuff, I never really got into.
Like I said, I got a high natural level of testosterone anyway.
So, boosting it to me doesn't really do anything.
I tried testosterone once.
I used Cypionate and after I got weaker.
So I found my natural level being as high as it was actually benefited me more than actually taking the synthetic stuff.
So, every time I – when I tried it once, my weights just went down and everything.
As soon as I got off, again, my strength came back up, so.”
[37:56] Well, he was probably using a dosage that was lower than what he endogenously produces like he already said.
But that's just a consequence of using less exogenous hormone than you endogenously produce.
It's not like testosterone sucks necessarily.
It's just that if you suppress your endocrine function by using a dose lower than what you naturally produce, then, of course, you would experience a decrease in performance, strength, size, etc.
That's what I'm assuming happened anyway.
Tom Platz: “So prior to an event, it's mostly anabolic substances or none?”
Lee Priest: “Not really.
I hardly use any androgenics at all.”
Tom Platz: “No androgenic material whatsoever?”
Lee Priest: “No.”
Lee Priest's Take On Bodybuilder Steroid Abuse In The 90's
Tom Platz: ” Interesting.
It seems like — to me, it seems like your approach to bodybuilding and drug use is reminiscent of my era when I was competing in the — in the 80s.
It was something that was like almost not as predominant and not – I mean, some of the guys I've interviewed so far today talked about chemical warfare and, you know, $100,000 a year and the risk of insulin where you could, you know, go into comas and things.
And I sitting there like oh my God,”
Lee Priest: I'm more of the believer – I've always been a believer in hard training, proper nutrition.
The mental side and getting your mind focused.
And to me, steroids are maybe like a 5 percent, even if that, they're more like an aid, rather than so many people will use them as a crutch, you know, they get them through and take them all the time, you know, I'll train with people who are like, we'll be going heavy and they can't go hit it and they're like, oh, well, I'm not on anything right now.
I'm like, what excuse is that?
They're like, well, no, I'm not on drugs right now, I can't train heavy.
It's like, you know, to me, (INAUDIBLE).
A lot of my best lifts are being, you know, it's like, well, I take drugs, I don't use them to get stronger or get bigger.
So, whereas like I'll just use them for an aid getting ready for a contest to help me recover, stuff like that.
Whereas people these days, it's like more of a crutch they want to lean on.
They want to take large amounts to help them train.
Whereas, you know, where I come back from before when I was — starting off training it was always the hard work, the dedication.
You know, sure, you might use a little bit of drug, but it's just like to aid you to get there, it's not going to help you or make you a champion.
So I just believe in hard training more than drugs, however, these days, some people want drugs before they even start training, so…”
Tom Platz: “Yes.
Well, that's a good point.
I mean, in terms of our younger viewers or up and coming guys watching this tape, what would you — be your advice to them in terms of — I mean, you — I mean, you already said more should — is less in terms of your own approach?”
Lee Priest: “That's one of those things, like, no matter what sport you're doing, try and do it your best you can without them.
Then if you think you do need to use them, or you know, you look into it, you know, I would say, at least, four or five years in any sport, whether it'd be football, running, whatever.
At least, try and do your best you can naturally, you know.
But then, it's going to come down to your personal choice if you want to use them.
And then if you do use them, just the suggested dose, you know, if the suggested dose is 1 cc, just take that, you know, it will probably work for you.
That's what I've always found.
I've always just stuck to what I felt worked for me.
Whereas, people have come up to me and they said, Lee, you should be taking — you should be taking this and that).
They'll be saying, you should be taking 1500 mg, but I'm like, why?
I said, you know, 200 mg works, why take any more, you know?
But people maybe take more because it's more hearsay more than anything, you know, they hear these guys taking it, they hear these guys taking this.
And they want to keep — you know, if he's taking, I better take it to keep up with him.
But yet, you don't need to, the small works, stick to it.
It always comes down to like when someone does their first course, personally, (INAUDIBLE) too scared to ask a doctor or someone around and does (INAUDIBLE).
So they might ask someone at the gym who's using, you know, tons of drugs, what should I take?
And that guy will say take 1000 mg of these, take five of these, take some of this.
Their first course, they start off on this large amount, and from then on, all they use is large amounts, large amounts.
If they had started off from a smaller amount, they'd find they get the same gains as the large amount, but yet, their minds are now set on this large amount, they got to keep taking more and more because they want to get bigger and bigger which isn't the case.”
Why Are Bodybuilders In The 90's So Much Bigger Than Bodybuilders In The 70's and 80's
Tom Platz: “Yes. So, what's — what do you account for the reason we're seeing such tremendously — yourself, such tremendously large physiques on the stage today?
I mean, when I was competing in the 80s, you're over 200 – in the 70s, you're over 200 pounds, you're big.
Now, there are guys getting close to 300 pounds and 3 percent body fat.”
Lee Priest: “I think a lot of it, too, you know, maybe genetics, people coming along, maybe nutrition has changed a bit, you know.
Like, back in the early days, it was more of the higher fat foods and the milks and this.
But now, it's more — the diets are changing and even the training is changing.
But, you know, on the genetics, different body types coming through and that whereas even back then you had the freaks back in that day and age.
But now it's like, maybe if you guys are training now, you too would probably look the way some of the guys do now, so.
That's one of those things that might be – you know, I can't really say drugs, because drugs have been there for a long time too.”
[42:42] I don't think that's accurate.
I think, one, the population increases substantially every year.
Obviously, there's going to be more genetic outliers with freakish genetics as the years progress.
But, in addition, having more drugs more readily available, and just having higher dosages being used, in addition to things like GH and insulin which weren't around in the 70s, I think that accounts for the freak factor in the 90s versus the 70s and 80s.
I don't think it's a coincidence that when GH and insulin became abused in the 90s that all the freaks started coming out.
Back in the 70s, it sounds like you would have to go to your doctor and ask for a certain amount to be prescribed to you and then that's what you'd be limited to.
In the 90s, there's underground labs and whatnot, and you can have access to however much you want and can afford.
If you just wanted to abuse stuff, then it's more readily available and easier to get.
Plus, there are other things that can blow you up into another dimension that just weren't available in the 70s.
I think that's more so what accounts for it because I don't think the guys trained any harder in the 90s than the guys in the 70s, nor do I think they ate significantly better.
It's the same kind of food that's around.
The only thing that seems to be different is more genetic outliers probably due to population and the drugs.
That's what I think.
Growth Hormone (GH) Is Not A Miracle Drug
Lee Priest: “And I've always been a short (INAUDIBLE) about the growth hormone (INAUDIBLE) but that's what I think Growths aren't one of the drugs that's going to add that much muscle, you know, make someone 40-50 pounds heavier than they would have been without it.
You know, it's going to add a little bit, but, you know, it's nothing that's serious where drugs are going to change someone so greatly. I think it's a variety of things…”
[44:27] I kind of agree with him, that GH is not a magic thing that's going to make you grow.
It's definitely not.
If you look at the clinical data, pretty much any increase in size as a result of GH cannot even be accounted for as muscle tissue.
It's always just lean body mass, which could easily just be water, nitrogen retention, or whatever.
There is no clinical data proving it actually builds legitimate muscle.
The fact is it can keep somebody leaner while they bulk up to that higher body weight that they're trying to get to.
In conjunction with the insulin, it creates a storm of anabolism that just wasn't available in the 70s.
I think that's more or less what accounts for it.
How There Are Increasing Amounts Of Genetic Phenoms In Sport
Lee Priest: “Like, training, nutrition, everything genetics, the whole makeup, you know.”
Tom Platz: “So, in your opinion, you would tend to believe that — or, you're stating the genetics, basically, we're getting better genetics in the sport, which accounts largely or almost that's the main reason that we're seeing … “
Lee Priest: “I think so too. because the sport these days is much bigger than it was back then.
Back then you had like a small group of people that did it, which was still a large number these days.
The group of people is getting bigger and bigger, more body types are coming into it, so you're seeing the more freaky types coming in.
Whereas, back then, as you say, you only had 50 people doing it back then, now, you got 200 people.
And at 200, there's going to be maybe two or four freaks that come out of it … “
[45:51] I love this pedestal thing with a dumbbell in the background I just noticed.
Lee Priest: “You're going to see more people because there's, you know, such like, various types of physique these days.
Whereas, now you got a couple of thousand doing it now, getting into the hundreds of thousands.
You're going to have the odd freaks coming out of the woodwork.
You just — you look at him, you go, wow, what's he's taking?
But yet, if I'm not taking hardly anything, like I say there's some — back in the, you know, in the farms, you know, (INAUDIBLE) these homebred farm boys, you know, they're massive.
All they do is lift, you know, bales of hay, I know they sort of (INAUDIBLE) onto the trucks and you know, work around the farm.
But yet, naturally, they're naturally big.
If they started training, they could be a freak, you know, maybe five or six years.
So, just something there's more people into it now.
So you're seeing the various types of physiques.
The larger number of people do it, the more people that do it, you're going to have more people coming.
But even now, when you look at bodybuilding today at a top lineup, I could say, 15 Olympias at a top line up for a Mr. Olympia contest, there's 15 people, you might only have four that are really like — you look and say, wow, he's a freak.
The rest have got great physiques, but yet, four of them might stand out as being like out of this world.
So naturally, people say, well, he's taking a lot of drugs to look like that.
Whereas, you know, you're going to have that genetic freak in any sport.
You know, like Michael Jordan in basketball, people can call him a freak for the way he can fly (INAUDIBLE) those baskets, you know.
Come into running, you got Ben Johnson, Carl Lewis, the times, they can put in running, you know, just because they're built for that sport.
So, sometimes there are people that are built for this contest, built for the sport, they're going to be the best at what they do.
And then people are going to always label, you know, drugs, because no one else can do it, but yet, they're maybe just built for that sport.”
Lee Priest On SERMs And AI's
Tom Platz: “I see.
Have you ever experimented with — or do you have a need to experiment with blocking agents of any kind?”
Lee Priest: “No, I've never used them and tried.
Never really had the need to use them, so.”
Tom Platz: “How about things like …
[47:43] Well, he did say he uses Nolvadex pre-contest, so that would, I guess, qualify as a blocking agent I'm assuming.
I'm assuming he's referring to SERMs and AI's here.
Yeah, he does use Nolvadex apparently, so it should be noted.
Tom Platz: “Testosterone enhancing drugs … “
Lee Priest: “No.”
Tom Platz: “Nothing like that?”
Lee Priest: “Never.”
Lee Priest's Training Principles
Tom Platz: “So, you have a very basic approach to this.”
Lee Priest: “You know, my training is basic, and I stick to the basic exercises.
I've always stuck to the basics.
I think that's where people get it wrong sometimes, they might read magazines, listen to people and try and get too scientific.
Whereas, you know, weight training itself isn't really a scientific sport.
It's like, you know, you do the hard work, you lift the weights properly, you get enough rest, you get the nutrition.
Eventually, you will start growing and see results, but people want it overnight that's the mistake they're making.
Whereas bodybuilding, lifting weights is a long-term sport, it's going to take years before you might even put 10-pounds on.
However, people want it overnight, so they're going to take drugs and think when they take drugs they can lift a weight, sit back in a chair and tomorrow, I'll be big.
It doesn't work that way.
So if you expect that, you might as well not do it, you know, it's just stupidity.
If you've got the time, and you want to put the time into it, training, you know, you got the dedication.
Yes, that's all it takes is time.
So you just got to sort of sit back and train hard and do what you need to do.
And if you're going to use drugs, do it sensibly, but just give it time.
You're not going to — the more you take, you won't get any bigger, so.
Just (INAUDIBLE) sense of really and just you know go by what you believe in, because, you know, the most majority of people not what works for them, but yet, they want to listen to other people too much.
You know, there's going to be people they're going to lead you astray (INAUDIBLE).
(INAUDIBLE) comes down to, you know, your own — what you feel inside, you know, whether it's right or wrong, or if it's too much, you know, don't go along with the crowd, just do what you feel is right for yourself.
You see a lot of guys that do take heaps of drugs and go into the gym (INAUDIBLE) lifting all these weights, but yet, as they come off the drugs, they're back down to like 200 pounds, they go on the drugs, they bloat up with water to 250 then that's it.
Who wants to be like that, you know, you puff up, you go down, then I see guys who are using drugs, I look at them like, does he even lift weights, he looks like he's never lifted weight in his life, but yet, the list he'll give you of what he's taking…
So it just comes down, like I said – it's more of a mental thing.
To me, training is like I go by how I feel, if I feel strong that day, you know, some days I've benched five plates, 550, but I won't expect that every day.
Those guys do and then they get injured, like — if I go on the gym, bench five plates, that's great.
If they go on the gym the next time, they do chest and I get to three plates and it's heavy, I'll stop at three plates and I'll listen to my body more than anything.
Whereas people are like, I did five plates last time, I'm going to do five plates again.
So I get to three plates, three plates is heavy, add the weight on, then something is going to tear and something goes wrong.
So it's like, that's one of those things you got to listen to yourself really.
It's like it's an individual sport.
(INAUDIBLE) people can help you train, you have training partners, you know, people prepare you for shows when it actually comes down to it it's about you knowing your body the best.
It's like any sport
Now, there's people out there who say they can help you get ready for shows.
(INAUDIBLE) if you've been doing it long enough, you know what works for you, you know what gets you in shape, you know what gets you strong, you know what you have to do.
So, it's more like listening to yourself.”
Tom Platz: “It's very refreshing to hear that (INAUDIBLE) very, very top guys in the world stating simply that this is the way it is, that I don't use that much.
In fact, I spend next to nothing compared to what some of these guys use.
It's very refreshing to me, and I'm sure, some of our viewers won't believe you.”
Lee Priest: “Yes.”
Tom Platz: “(INAUDIBLE).
But nevertheless, I want to thank you for coming here and sharing … “
Tom Platz: “The reality of the … “
Lee Priest: “(INAUDIBLE) share this, it's going to come down to personal thing.
As I said, start on a small amount, I guarantee you'll get the same results.
Don't start on a large amount and if the small amount works, stick to that, you know.
Truly, guys, some might tell you to take more and more because they want to get the money out of you.
But, you know, you don't need it.
It just comes down to how you feel (INAUDIBLE) everyone is in this sport for longevity too.
So, you want to be around to until 60-70 you know?
Who wants to win a show at the age of 50 die, or age of 45, turnover and die.
So, that's not too healthy, so.”
Tom Platz: “Most definitely.
Lee Priest: “Thank you.”
Tom Platz: “Thanks very much.”
Conclusion On Lee Priest's Steroid Cycle
[51:46] Well, that was pretty enlightening, to say the least.
I'm sure a lot of people will think he's lying obviously.
Comment down below what you guys think.
Obviously, very conservative use, one of the most insane physiques of all-time, especially, considering the use.
It makes you really wonder if the guys who use excessive amounts even needed that much.
I don't really know.
Anyway, that was pretty much my opinion on it.
You guys saw throughout the commentary.
Huge props to Lee Priest for not being anonymous about it and just straight up telling us how it is.
I can't really knock him for that.
Lee Priest's Steroid Cycle
After listening to the entire interview, at the peak of Lee Priest's steroid cycle dosages he claims his use broke down to the following:
- Injectable Stanozolol (Winstrol) – 200 mg per week split into two 100 mg injections every three days.
- Primobolan – 200 mg per week
- Nandrolone Decanoate (Deca) – 200 mg per week
- Anadrol tablets – 50 mg per day
- Human Growth Hormone (HGH) – 2 IU per day