This interview discussing Aaron Baker's steroid cycle was recorded by Tom Platz in the 90's.
Granted, this is supposed to be an anonymous interview.
This is just an educated guess based on mannerisms and what they sound like and look like, so by no means take it as a definitive statement.
This is Aaron Baker, at least what people on the internet think, and that's what I'm led to believe as well.
The title may not be 100% accurate, just a disclaimer there, but I'm going to react to it as if it was him.
Let's get straight into it.
What Prompted Aaron Baker To Use Steroids
Tom Platz: “The first question I'd like to (INAUDIBLE) and ask you quite simply, is what brought you to the steroid table in the first place?
Aaron Baker: “That's an interesting question.
I've been involved in bodybuilding since my mid-teens.
And I always had aspirations of turning pro, and just dreamed to be one of the top professional bodybuilders in the world.
But, as I improved in my younger years, I found out that I had good genetics for the sport, and I consider that a blessing.
So, I continue to train hard and work hard.
But even in my teens, the steroid issue was — it wasn't something that was hidden so much, it was addressed.
It just — it was addressed in that I knew that down the line, in order to remain competitive, I would have to entertain that idea and more than likely start to use them.
But I feel fortunate and I was taught that the farther I went without them and the harder than I train without them, the less I would have to take and, you know, just the farther I would go, naturally, and the less that I would have to subject myself to.
So, I really knew about them in my teens before I was even out of my teens.
But I personally chose to abstain from them from a number of years before I actually — before I actually did try them.
I remember refusing at one point in '84, and my friends were kind of teasing me with them, “Go on, go on, take one.” And I'm like, “No, no.” Because I just wasn't ready (INAUDIBLE)
In my mind, I wanted to go another couple of years.
And I also knew that it was inevitable, you know, based on what the feedback that I was getting from the sport, and also the quality of physique that was on a slightly higher level, the open class level.
And it was definitely a different look, but I knew that (INAUDIBLE) would come from diligence and hard work and persistence, and basically going after what I wanted.
So, I'd have to say, but in my teens is when I really found out about them, and really kind of being the inevitable because I did have aspirations of turning professional. So …”
Tom Platz: “What specific steroids do you use?”
Aaron Baker: “Well, personally, I've really done well with some of the basic things like, you know, your basic testosterone, and there's three types that I usually use, Cypionate, which is a stronger (INAUDIBLE) type.
There's Propionate, which is a faster acting lighter oil-based type.”
[4:20] It's not stronger, it’s probably just concentrated more densely with more active hormone in it because that's pretty common for Cypionate to be dosed higher per milliliter than Propionate or something like that.
That’s probably what he means when he said stronger.
Aaron Baker: “And Enanthate, which is another faster — it’s kind of in between the former two.”
[4:52] Enanthate is not that fast, it's pretty widely considered a long ester, I would think.
Aaron Baker: “I've used — I was taught to balance the — what we call androgenic type of drugs, which are your strength building, mass building testosterones.
And couple that with something that was known as an anabolic type, which would be Primobolan, which I’ve used.
It was cheap, relatively cheap in comparison to some of the more designer type …”
[5:32] That's funny because nowadays, Primobolan is the most expensive and the hardest to come by.
Now I can see why all these guys seem to favor Primobolan back in the day so much.
Aaron Baker: “… for lack of a better term, but I’ve really gotten a lot of results with the basics, which I would call testosterone: Primobolan, Dianabol, which is one of the older ones, it's been around for quite a number of years.”
Aaron Baker: “I started using Anadrol a few years later, but I really have access to it so much the first four or five years or so.
And I have used Halotestin more in my latter years, maybe the second half of, you know, the amount of years that I’ve used them.
I've used a number of different types ranging from — what's it called, Parabolan, which is a …”
Parabolan (Trenbolone) Use
[6:46] Parabolan is Trenbolone (Tren), the pharma-grade version of the drug from France.
I did an article on that recently, if you want to see basically how that came about, why it was discontinued, what the protocol was for patients who were prescribed it, and more insightful information into Trenbolone.
Aaron Baker: “… kind of has both properties of anabolic and androgenic.
And not so much androgenic, it's fairly balanced.”
[7:12] A lot of people would disagree with that, but if you actually do look up the pharmacology of Trenbolone and its mechanism of action and selectivity for muscle tissue to prostate, and its actual level of selectivity for muscle relative to androgenic activity, it is actually pretty selective.
It's just fairly often the dosages being used are so exorbitant and exceed even that of what's prescribed to beef up cattle, which is unnecessary.
If you go look at the data, though, you can see how its tissue selectivity actually resembles a SARM in its action.
Obviously, it's not to say it's exempt from androgenicity whatsoever because neither are SARMs, but it's actually far more selective than most anabolics that are used commonly, which is contrary to popular belief.
It just the dosage people use are so high that causes massive amounts of androgenic activity.
The anabolic to androgenic ratio really doesn't portray its actual level of selectivity very well.
I believe it's like 500 to 500 on those traditional charts, which is not the case when you actually go look at the data.
Winstrol Use and Testosterone Suspension (Water-Based)
Aaron Baker: “The cutting drugs which are the highly anabolic drugs, and they use closer to competitions, predominantly your Winstrol (INAUDIBLE).
Test suspension, which is another water-based milky (INAUDIBLE) type of substance.
And the anabolic, highly anabolic drugs were used closer to competition, the water-based because they tend to hold less water under the skin, so you can retain the harder look on any competition.
Well, in the offseason and the months a little farther back from the competition, you could depend on, you know, the more androgenic, oil-based steroids. But others …”
[9:25] I think that's pretty common practice, actually.
It’s fairly consistent across the board.
These guys are on long esters in the offseason, essentially, and then they swap out into the short esters or swap out into even the really fast-acting water-based stuff, which is in and out of your system in like a day.
And those practices, more or less, still stay consistent to this day.
I wouldn't necessarily say that oil base, in general, should be cut out though.
Oral Steroid Use
Aaron Baker: “I've used Anavar, which is an — excuse me — an anabolic, highly anabolic type tablets, which is popular in the mid-70's through the early 80's and up to the mid-80s' (INAUDIBLE) making it …”
[10:15] I think this is the first pro-bodybuilder out of all the interviews I've seen that talked about Anavar, as well as Dianabol, I think, which is interesting.
Obviously, this guy was probably really well-connected.
He could get Parabolan Amps, he could get Anavar, he get Dianabol, he get whatever he wanted it sounds like so far.
Aaron Baker: “There's also an oral Winstrol, which is also good for the cutting up phase.
Some of these are relatively weak, but you have your stronger dosages like Anadrol, which is one of the most toxic along with the Halotestin.
So, I've used — I've used all of those at one time or another, and some of them, I've always used.
I personally, always believe that less is more, you know?
And I also believe that training hard in the offseason would make the difference than (INAUDIBLE) competition.
But that's not always the mentality of the competitors, some people think more is better.
And some people wouldn't hesitate to take more in hopes of getting more progress.
And I think it's with the competition just growing, and with more money and more prestige, it does get competitive.
It gets extremely competitive, and I think that people tend to pull out all stops from time to time.
And I mean, I myself have even taken the attitude of, well, you know, I'm going to drug it up this time, and show them.
And that wasn't my normal attitude, but when you're involved in it, you are (INAUDIBLE) you know, and if it's — if it's a factor in the game, and it was very much a factor, especially on the national and professional levels.
But even on the amateur levels, they have aspirations as high as anyone.
And I think it's important for them to learn safety as much as at the beginning level as possible.”
Aaron Baker's Steroid Dosages
Tom Platz: “Okay, in terms — specifically in terms of dosage, can you give me some idea as far as milligrams — we're talking about here in terms of the steroids?”
Aaron Baker: “Okay. Now myself, I could get away with probably 1 cc of, say, Cypionate, which was 200 mg, if I could, you know, get a hold of that particular (INAUDIBLE) the bottle, along with an androgenic one.
You know, a couple those two together.
1 cc of each. I've really, really never gone above 1 cc of each, but I have stacked maybe three together, you know, at one time (INAUDIBLE) androgenic type of drug coupled with, you know, highly anabolic type of drug.
And then may — or maybe two anabolic, or something kind of in the middle.
And that's also with, usually, usually two different types of tablets.
Usually, a basic Anadrol, which is a strength (INAUDIBLE) mass builder.
Also, it's more of a water retainer, and usually one Anadrol.
I've rarely gone over one Anadrol, but I have gone two, but in my latter, the latter half of the — of my career.”
[14:03] If you really think about how much that is weekly, that's 1 cc of Testosterone Cypionate and then 1 cc of something else per week.
I don't even know if I'm interpreting what he said correctly because that was a lot of information at once.
And then 50 mg of Anadrol per day would put you at 350 mg for the Anadrol per week plus 200 mg Testosterone, 550 plus something else.
I'll just say 750 mg total per week, which is pretty damn low.
Aaron Baker: “So, myself, in terms of dosages, I could really deal with that, you know, because I always trained hard and genetically, that's all I needed.
But someone that didn't have as good of genetics as I had, I think would be inclined to — and I have seen people that have been more inclined to increase the dosages. And that …”
[15:01] Definitely the case, always the guys thinking, “the reason I don't look like them is because they're using more than me,” and it's often not the case whatsoever.
Aaron Baker: “That's something that's rampant, you know …”
Tom Platz: “So, like per week, though, on a weekly week basis.”
Aaron Baker: “A week, I could get away with that particular dosage twice a week.
I'd hit it probably Monday and Thursday.”
Tom Platz: “That dosage being, again?”
Aaron Baker: “Again, 1 cc of Testosterone Cypionate, 1 cc of Primobolan, or — it depends on basically what anabolic I could get my hands on at that time to go along with — to go along with the androgenic testosterone, mass builder and strength builder.”
Tom Platz: “Is there a difference in the amount taken or the type …”
[15:57] I guess if he takes that twice a week, then that would be 50 Anadrol a day still, that's 350 a week, then we have 200 mg Testosterone Cypionate twice a week, which is 400 mg.
So, we're at 750 mg, and then Primobolan, I'm assuming 100 to 200 mg per shot, and then depending on the concentration, I'm assuming it's probably like 100 mg/ml.
Ultimately, he's probably doing 1 gram, if even.
That's not very much, well, by Olympia standards, I would think.
Aaron Baker's Offseason Steroid Cycle
Tom Platz: “Is there a difference in the amount taken or the type sort of steroids taken versus the on-season versus the offseason?”
Aaron Baker: “Offseason could be considered the first months of your preparations for competition.
It could be anywhere from six months out, it could be anywhere from three months out, depending on where you are, and when you decide.
It also depends on your point of origin.
When you're starting, you know, your program to compete.”
Tom Platz: ” Do you ever not — I mean, is there ever a time during the year, a number of months, weeks when you do not take steroids?”
Aaron Baker: “Now, in the beginning, I would only — I would only take steroids, as I started a program for a competition.
And in the offseason, I would just train naturally and train as heavy as hard as I possibly could.
And I felt that (INAUDIBLE) off allowed my own receptors to come back online and allowed my own body's physiology to …”
[17:39] Receptors never go offline just to be clear.
Androgen receptors don't downregulate, they upregulate in the presence of exogenous androgens, they don't go offline when you're pounding steroids.
It is Myostatin that prevents you from just continually gaining excessive amounts of mass in the presence of those androgens.
Aaron Baker: “… just do its job, and stay where it should be.
I'm having a more positive effect, you know, when I decided to start the steroids for competition.”
Tom Platz: “So, the beginning was like eight weeks out or 2 months?”
Aaron Baker: “Kind of eight weeks, probably about three months.
You know, they're primarily six week, as I learned it in the beginning, six week to 12 weeks cycles.
And then you go off for a month and let your receptors come back online.
In some cases, they weren't necessarily off, but it's just to give your body a rest from it, so that your own system doesn't (INAUDIBLE) how to do its own jobs.
Aaron Baker's Contest Prep Phase
Aaron Baker: “As I progressed in the sport and reached higher levels in the sport, you find out that some of your competitors are on a little more frequently.
And so, you tend to adjust your own levels with the competitors.
You know, you see one guy may be — may not be on all year-round, but he may be on six months before his next competition, as opposed to 3, or as opposed to 12 weeks.
And I'm sorry, as opposed to eight weeks or so.
So, there's a growing competition, and it really boils down to your own discretion, and what you feel is safe, or what you're willing to do for competition.
And (INAUDIBLE) sure thing is with prize money and with the prestige and status and recognition, it tends to motivate you to do whatever it takes.
And I think that's where the scary part comes in.
That's where the potential danger can enter into the picture.
Especially, if you're doing it under your (INAUDIBLE) expertise.
And your kind of following the advice of the quack house doctor, you know, this is what you take and you do that, and this and that.
I've had doctors advises in the beginning, and after a while, you kind of learned a little bit of — you know, you basically learned what not to do in the beginning.
And after that, just kind of use your own discretion.”
Tom Platz: “So, six months would be probably the most you might take steroids in a year's time, or would that vary?”
Aaron Baker: ” I would think — I would say that that would be the most, but I have to be honest and say that there are times during the year when I might be doing exhibitions.
And I might just want to look a little fuller, or just look my best during the exhibition season.
So, I have to be honest and say that there are times that I have extended or kind of jumped on a little bit, not to get me in shape, but just to — for that extra little edge, that extra fullness or extra 10% of whatever it gives you.”
Aaron Baker's Annual Steroid Cycle Cost
Tom Platz: “What's the annual cost?
Well, what's your estimate, what's your approximate estimate of …”
[21:16] I'm assuming this guy is probably more or less on year-round, as compared to some of the other guys that I've done the videos on.
I don't know, obviously, anyone can be lying, but I'm just going to take for granted what they're saying is legitimate, so let's just base it off that when we're evaluating it just at a face level.
Tom Platz: “… your annual cost, money-wise, dollar-wise to get in shape for a major event of the year?”
Aaron Baker: “For a big one, as a professional, I think minimum, it's going to cost you roughly five grand, five to six grand, depending on your own particular dosages and appetites for it.
Some people have access to much more than the guys that move it.
And so, the access to much more, they can experiment on themselves, and they could basically try whatever they wanted to because they had access to it.”
Tom Platz: “Some of the guys spend a lot more than …”
Aaron Baker: “Oh, a lot more.
That was what I could get by, and sometimes I — it was — it was rarely less than five.
And that was I think (INAUDIBLE)”
Tom Platz: “What — I know, there's people going beyond your own situation here.”
Aaron Baker: “I know one champion in particular that used to spend minimum of $100,000.
Tom Platz: “$100,000 per year to get in shape?”
Aaron Baker: “Yes, yes.”
Tom Platz: “Wow. That's …”
[23:02] It almost sounds like the cost factor comes down to growth hormone because only a certain amount can be allocated to steroids because steroids are not overly expensive.
And then, I would feel like the guys getting closer to $15,000 plus are just the ones that are more liberal with their growth hormone dosages.
At least that's my guess based on what I've seen in the past videos.
Tom Platz: “… including GH, and …”
Aaron Baker's Take On Esiclene Use
Aaron Baker: “Yes, yes. But it would also include any in every little supplemental assist drug that would help — maybe something that helps tighten the scans and a new case or various types of assisting — it could be inflammatory drugs.
There's even something out now that has been out probably a year, year and a half called Synthol.
And it's supposed to be a step beyond the original inflammatory drug, which was Esiclene.
And that's, you know, worked …”
[24:08] The mechanism of action of Esiclene and Synthol are totally different, though, but it's funny how it's so hyped up in these videos, and then it just turns out to be just sterile oil.
Aaron Baker: “… based and, you know, it's actually an irritant, you know, it irritates the muscle and in flames for a couple of days.”
Tom Platz: “These drugs like Esiclene can actually inject it upon into the muscle?”
Aaron Baker: “You direct it — you inject it directly into the muscle, and …”
Tom Platz: “It increases the size of the muscle upon — for a short period of time?”
Aaron Baker: “Right, for a short period of time. A couple of days or so.”
Tom Platz: “Is that — do you use quite a bit by most of the guys?”
Aaron Baker: “Yes. Yes. Now, because — and I'm sure there's some people that don't care for it, but it's a little something just a little bit more polished.
If you have a weak area that's stubborn or an area of a muscle that you'd like to change the shape or whatever.
Now, don't get me wrong, that's not going to put the muscle in place, that's where the muscle is not there, but it can enhance the shape or add a little bit more fullness to an area that otherwise is just not quite up to par, genetically, or whatever.
I mean, I've hit muscles in areas only — I mean, we're talking the week before the show, you know?
When I'm already in shape, I'm already as developed as I'm going to be.
But, when you find out that your competitors are doing that, and you're in a realm of looking your best on that day — and those are probably a lot less harmful than the actual anabolic.
But, the Synthol, that's something that's being used now, and there's a professional that was in the premier competition, the Olympia this year, that has Synthol in his arms, and it doesn't look natural.
There's a discoloration from prolonged use.
They don't …”
[26:15] I'm wondering if he's referring to Flex Wheeler.
I just know from the 90's, that was like the most prolific supposed Synthol user, but I don't know.
Again, I'm just guessing here, but his arms looked insane, but maybe these guys could spot out the Synthol use.
Obviously, in the current day, you can see there's something definitely up with them.
I'm wondering who is referring to here.
Aaron Baker: “… flex, so for all practical purposes, it increases the fullness in the shape.
[26:49] That was a weird coincidence.
Talking about Flex Wheeler and I press play and then he says flex.
Aaron Baker: “But it's so obvious yet it's allowed.
And it's kind of disheartening, but that's allowed.”
Tom Platz: “How long does the effects last from this particular drug?”
Aaron Baker: “I've never used that one myself, but I read a couple of articles on it.
I understand that you have to do it — that you do I think every week or every other week or something like that.
You're doing the various parts of the muscle.”
Growth Hormone Use And Dosage
Tom Platz: “Now, in terms of growth hormone, how many IUs per day would that be?”
Aaron Baker: “I have gotten away with less is better.
I've used more at times and didn't necessarily get a desired effect.
I have heard also the prolonged use of GH and seen evidences of it expanding your organs, making your waist wider.
Basically, in essence, making you waste water and expanding your organs and changing the physique.”
Tom Platz: “Okay, specific dosages, can you be (INAUDIBLE)”
Aaron Baker: “For me, the first time I tried it, it was something like every other day, starting the 10 weeks out for a competition.
I've never taken more than 12 or 10 weeks before because I've been taught that longer than that, you give your organs a chance to expand and widen your waist.”
Tom Platz: “So, how many IUs per day?”
Aaron Baker: “IUs per day? For me …”
[28:35] Tom is getting fed up.
Aaron Baker: “I use probably about no more than 2, for me.”
Tom Platz: “Some guys take a lot more, though.”
Aaron Baker: “Some guys take a lot more.
I know, professionals that take — that have taken as much as 9.
Even some, I've heard as much as 12 or 15 …”
[28:59] 12 or 15.
I'm assuming those are the guys who were spending the upper end of the cost for the price of preparing for competitions.
If you're only using 2 IUs, I'm sure that's probably why his preparation costs seem a lot more reasonable than most guys.
I've experienced a similar thing through my stints of GH.
More does not necessarily seem to equate to more muscle.
The diminishing returns effect sets in very quickly.
How much can you push your IGF up before you're just exacerbating extreme levels of acromegaly symptoms?
You're not really inducing any greater level of anabolism past a certain point, and you're just screwing yourself up and giving yourself insulin resistance.
I think that's something that goes totally overlooked.
A lot of guys just think more is better with the GH, and I don't necessarily think that's the case.
I used to believe that, as I was led to believe that because I used to read all the stuff on the forums.
It was like, “whatever you can afford is like the best dose of GH.”
Giving yourself as high of a dose makes you sleep all day and not able to go to the gym because you're so tired.
Even when you do go to the gym, you have to smash pre-workouts and have 400 mg of caffeine just to get out of your chair.
You're too tired to even eat, and you're going to bed for 12 hours a day, and you're not getting your calories in because you're sleeping all day.
You have severely elevated blood sugar all day long, and you're burning out your beta cells, and you're giving yourself type II diabetes.
It's not always more is better with GH, trust me.
Aaron Baker: “To me, that just boggles my mind.
I can't conceive of that, or the need to.
And I don't believe that that's going to produce what they're trying to produce with it.
I don't think it's going to create shape.
I think it basically will just raise your tolerance and cause you to have to take more.”
Growth Hormone Use In The Offseason
Tom Platz: “Prior — do you take GH — or in your opinion is GH to be utilized offseason or prior to the show?”
Aaron Baker: “Prior to the show more often.
I think in the offseason, unless you're getting ready for something in particular, a certain project, where you require a certain look, I think it's a waste.
You do tend to expand your muscle cells and that you can keep muscle that you put on with it, whereas sometimes with anabolics, if you don't keep eating or if you don't — you don't keep busting your butt and feeding yourself and maintain the training, you know, in any case, you could lose weight or not keep the muscle.
But with GH, it's supposed to expand, increase the muscle cells, so that you actually hold on to the new muscle that you put on.
And in many cases, it's not always so much as putting on new muscle.
In some cases, it is because you're lucky enough to just …”
[32:06] It's just a lot of broscience right now, but I'm not going to delve too deep into it.
I think most of you guys probably would understand that this is not necessarily how it works.
Aaron Baker: “And the right combination of training and nutrition, rest, the whole nine yards, setting the proper conditions for muscle growth.
But, it's something that …”
Tom Platz: “Now, how long — how long do you — would you take GH? How many weeks or months?”
Aaron Baker: “Personally, for me, 10 to 12 weeks.
No — and no more than 12.”
Tom Platz: “That being 2 cc's a day, approximately?”
Aaron Baker: “2 cc's.
I've taken maybe 1 cc a day or one IU a day, and that's worked.
But, I also was taught that …”
How Growth Hormone Works And When To Take It
[33:00] 1 IU would probably barely put you out of the reference range.
If you have high normal natural GH levels, I don't really see a point.
Well, that's actually not necessarily true because you don't necessarily reap no benefits from depending on when you pin the 1 IU, but it seems pretty negligible to me.
It's interesting, though, because a lot of people think the longer you're on GH, the better, and you have to be on it for at least six months for it to work.
That's like the biggest myth ever.
As soon as you pin it, your body starts converting into IGF in the liver, and the mechanism of action that occurs where you would get the benefits you're seeking out of it starts occurring right away.
It's not like it takes six months to accumulate in the body.
When a guy says he takes it 3 months of the year, I don't necessarily call BS on it, especially when it costs as much as it did back in the day to get legitimate stuff or the difficulty of obtaining it.
It's not like they had a high-quality generics they could get like guys do here nowadays.
Drugs like that, they're probably using drugs that cost like $1,000 a kit.
I don't necessarily doubt what he's saying is what I'm saying.
Aaron Baker: “… should have a day in between is better.
So, you can go two days on, one day off, which could work really well.
And I've also gone — I've also split up the dosages.
[34:25] Two days on, one day off, or five days on, weekend off, that kind of thing, that's all just a money-saving tactic, it has nothing to do with the efficacy of the drug or preventing adaptation, or anything like that.
I used to see that all the time, where people say you've got to use a drug for five days, and then take the weekend off.
It's just people who want to make a kit last for a full month at the dosage they're using as opposed to daily usage, or just being conservative and drag out a kit longer.
You're not helping the process in any way by taking two random days off of your week-long cycle.
Aaron Baker: “Like, I've done once in the morning, and once an afternoon, and then that's enough, splitting up my dosages over two times rather than just taking it at one pop.
And I've also taken it just before bed and just training.
Now, insulin, that is its partner in crime.
After trying GH with anabolics, I had a phenomenal effect, brought my physique to a new level of definition.
It had been told that it was so much easier to prepare, that it would eat fat and this and that.
I mean, a lot of the stories were blown out of proportion, “Oh man, (INAUDIBLE) you have to eat junk food, you can eat junk food, everything and just get totally shredded,” you know, and that doesn't make sense, because …”
[35:56] That's what people say all the time about Trenbolone and GH.
You supposedly can eat whatever you want and can't get fat.
That's incorrect. When you eat enough calories, you're going to get fat.
Trust me, if you eat like a bird, that's when you'll not get fat.
Aaron Baker: “The cleaner you eat, the better you're going to look, but …”
Tom Platz: “So, the GH with (INAUDIBLE)”
Aaron Baker: “With the GH.”
Tom Platz: “And GH and the insulin together, you can …”
Aaron Baker: “Now, that's a horse of a different color.
Now, as you see certain qualities of physique, you begin to notice minute differences, maybe a little bit more fullness here, maybe a sick looking roundness that this other guy may have.
And then, you find out — and I understand that (INAUDIBLE) tight-lipped dispersal of information because everyone is so secretive and competitive.
And if you have — if you're — if you're a threat, then you're even less likely to get it firsthand.
But as I found out about insulin and was shown or explained how to use it, there are dangers in using it because it's definitely something that you don't want to do haphazardly.
And you don't want to get your own insulin, you know, out of joint.
But, I did try insulin during a competition training phase coming into a show.”
Tom Platz: “So, insulin is only before the show or is it during the offseason as well?”
Aaron Baker: “I (INAUDIBLE) only before.
You know, with me, it was just before, and it was only for a certain amount of weeks.
It was a phenomenal response.
I had fullness like you wouldn't believe, and I have round muscle bellies, to begin with, naturally, but it even took what I have naturally to a different level.
A different fullness, different roundness, some different pump type and intensity.
It was incredible, and it was definitely a vast marked difference.”
Tom Platz: “Dosage?”
Aaron Baker: “Dosage. Okay, there are two types of insulin predominantly that people use as a fast-acting R and a slow-acting N.
The N works over a period of hours, slowly released into your body.
And the R is a fast-acting insulin that actually kicks in relatively soon.
We're talking minutes to half an hour.
The danger is you definitely don't want to come into a carbohydrate deficit because you will go into an insulin — you will have what's called a reaction.
And I had it described to me the reaction …”
[38:53] He's talking about hypoglycemia right now.
Aaron Baker: “It is a suffocating sort of feeling.
It's actually — you get heavy, your breathing gets erratic, you start sweating like crazy, you know, it feels like you're inside (INAUDIBLE) bag almost.
And you need to get simple sugars into your system as soon as …”
[39:16] The craving for simple sugars when you're going hypo, there's no other way to describe it, you're like in a cold sweat.
You're just like, “I need sugar like right now.”
It's pretty much exactly what he's describing right now, it's pretty accurate.
Aaron Baker: “It's awesome.
So, what happened was the dosages — actually, we're talking a 10th …”
Tom Platz: “10th of a regimen?”.
Aaron Baker: “(INAUDIBLE) every minute amount (INAUDIBLE) …”
[39:53] Starting with 10 IUs.
Tom Platz: “Per day?”
Aaron Baker: “No, per time.”
[39:59] So, a 10th of a cc would be 0.1 ml, which would be 10 units, typically.
Aaron Baker: “I think I tried the slow-acting, the slow-releasing in the morning.
I'm going to try to recall how I did it, but it's — I think it was one of each (INAUDIBLE) different times of the day, it was not together.
Tom Platz: “Twice a day?”
Aaron Baker: “Or, twice a day, once before training and once in the afternoon before your second session.
But I have heard of people taking it after they train, you know, in order to quickly replenish and just suck everything into the muscle.
I recommended that you take protein with it after that.
But myself, I was taught that you don't need to go over a 10th.
And when you do start going above that, that's when you start playing with fire.”
[41:05] Just having an arbitrary dosage like that, a 10th of a milliliter, that is the worst way to go about dosing insulin.
Obviously, it should be based on your own blood sugar and level of insulin resistance or insulin sensitivity.
In accordance with that, it's not like you just need protein with it to shove it in the muscle.
It doesn't work like that necessarily.
You're going to need some sort of fast-acting carbs to bring up your blood sugar after you crash it manually with the insulin.
Otherwise, then you will go hypoglycemic if you do 10 IUs of Humalog post-workout after you're already depleted, and you don't have any carbs.
That's how you would go hypo, but the preconceived or predetermine dosage of just a 10th though, there should be no arbitrary numbers being pulled out of thin air for what kind of dosage should be used.
It should be based on your own physiology, your own fasting blood sugar levels, your own insulin resistance levels, and how much GH you're using, like a bunch of different factors.
Just keep that in mind because obviously, it's easy to listen to these freakiest pro-bodybuilder ever, and you'd be like, “He obviously knows exactly what to do.”
It's not like people should just go and pop 10 IUs of Humalog into their stomach fat every workout or post-workout every day, just because this guy heard how to do it.
Learn how these things work.
This guy is an example of insane genetics, but always take what he's saying with a grain of salt, and do the research yourself.
Aaron Baker: “That's when you enter a danger zone.
So, I've always been pretty good about heeding guidelines.
And I'm thankful for that, you know, I wasn't caught up into the point of, well, you know, one …”
Diabetics' Insulin Dosages Compared To Bodybuilders' Insulin Dosages
[42:58] Maybe I should go look at how diabetics use their insulin and the dosages they use, you start to learn very quickly how arbitrary these numbers are that bodybuilders throw around, and how ignorant bodybuilders are to how blood sugar management and insulin use actually works.
A diabetic will typically laugh at the way a bodybuilder handles insulin because it's not based on science at all, it's based on bodybuilder forum protocols, which is not the way to go about it.
Aaron Baker: “… did this then three is going to do that.
That's how people get hurt, you know, and that's how people — that's how people really damage themselves and put themselves in the danger zone.
And it only takes one good time to blow it.
And, you know, I didn't want to lose my life and all of that.
(INAUDIBLE) doing it, I was stepping into a new level of attitude, you know, if you will, for the sport, you know?
And it makes you ask yourself, okay, what am I willing to do to win? And what aren't I willing to do?
Now, myself personally, I only did it for probably two preparations, and I didn't do it all the way up into the show, I stopped three weeks before the show, because it did hold water.”
Tom Platz: “So, a total of how many weeks then?”
Aaron Baker: “Total? Probably five or six weeks.
It did help some gains, but …”
Tom Platz: “You stopped before the show, you said?”
Aaron Baker: “Yes, I stopped about three weeks before the show.
It did hold water, but I know people that …”
[44:41] It's crazy how many of these guys' protocols are designed around growing into shows.
When I hear these guys talking about, “I use the insulin, the GH is 10 weeks out, and they helped me grow, etc.”
I'm thinking if I wasn't in a surplus with enough anabolic support in conjunction with the GH and the insulin, while simultaneously being in a surplus, I'm not going to get anything out of this.
But then, you have these guys who are just genetic phenoms growing into the show at five, six weeks out, where I would be on a treadmill trying to burn fat off in a 500, 600, 700 calorie deficit on fat burners while they're growing with insulin.
I would not be touching insulin at five weeks out unless I was abusing GH and needed it.
It's kind of crazy to hear how these guys went about their preps.
Does Insulin Increase Body Fat?
Aaron Baker: “… eat on it, and they step on stage with a big full look.
And probably the guys that you see that are always full, but they don't possess the deep delineations that they used to as an amateur.
And you see them always getting bigger, and the waist also.
If I could name names.
Actually, after the second time that I tried it, I had about three weeks to go before the show.
Now, six weeks out, I was looking phenomenal, I had no qualms about anything, it was working perfectly.
And three weeks before the show, I had my body fat checked, and I looked pretty good, but I wasn't as crisp (INAUDIBLE) thought I should be three weeks before the show.
With the amount of aerobics that I was doing and everything else, I felt I should have been a little crisper.
I looked great, you know, but I had my body fat checked, and it was higher than it should have been.
So, I learned that the insulin does promote fat storage.
So, I had to stop that, lower my (INAUDIBLE) carbs, increase my aerobics, really break my neck to get in shape, and salvage what I had started all these months of preparation for the competition.”
Tom Platz: “So, you might use insulin in the offseason as well as on-season?”
Aaron Baker: “Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.”
[46:57] If you haven't seen my article on “Insulin & Body Fat Gain – The Number 1 Reason Why 90% Of Bodybuilders Just Get Fat“, I highly recommend you check out the article.
The article elaborates on things you should know before you just delve into that domain of performance enhancement because it's a very, very convoluted, and not a lot of people really know what they're talking about when it comes to insulin.
Aaron Baker: “You can, you know, improve your pump, even in maybe protein synthesis, even the way the carbs load into your body.
I mean, it's just jammed into the muscle.
And then, by the next competition, I thought, “You know what, I don't need this, you know? I don't need the risk.
Excuse me, and I don't need — I have muscle, you know, (INAUDIBLE) known for full muscle or density or whatever I have.
And I thought, do I need this to have muscle?
No, I've been training for, you know, 20 years.
I don't — I don't need this, I don't need the risk.
But I mean, that was my personal choice.
I could use it — and also, insulin will enable you to carb up on (INAUDIBLE) and look great.
I mean, as a matter of fact, at times, it's recommended, just because you need simple sugars to pop the veins and everything and to really trigger it for the desired effect.
But there's a way to do that, and, you know, there's a way that you can blow it as well.
But there are people that — there's one athlete that went into (INAUDIBLE) one shot this year at the Olympia.”
Carb Loading With Insulin And Its Dangers
Tom Platz: “Insulin shot, what does that mean?”
Aaron Baker: “It means that you get caught out on a limb without enough carbs and simple sugars in your bloodstream, and your body needs it. And the insulin drives up the consumption of it at a rapid rate.”
[49:05] Basically, somebody tried using a bunch of insulin to carb load, I guess.
What happened was it crashed their blood sugar, and then they were on stage perhaps, and obviously, don't have simple carbs present to just slam and call out on a limb with low blood sugar.
In a state of hypoglycemia, where your body basically needs to get simple sugar or else your blood sugar is too low and you're in a hypoglycemic crisis, essentially.
That's what he's referring to right now.
Aaron Baker: “It's that fast-acting R uses them up real quick and loads it into the muscle, so you — that's why diabetics have the sugar tablets that they can pop.”
Tom Platz: “So, you faint and go into a coma, or …”
Aaron Baker: “Oh, you can lock up. I mean, you can just lock up.
This particular athlete had problems with cramping, and …
See, if you're dehydrated along with all of that, I think you're opening up for more competitions.
This athlete was ushered to the hospital and then pumped full of saline and electrolytes.
And he's fortunate, and I'm glad he was out in three hours, but …”
Aaron Baker's Scariest Experience With Insulin
Tom Platz: “Anything scary to you ever happened like that?
Anything like — any certain drug you go (INAUDIBLE) lots of terrible reaction like …”
Aaron Baker: “Let's see.
I've had a reaction before, not a big one.
And I think it's because I didn't take, you know, these grandiose dosages.
But I'm — I've had a reaction to where I'm like, what is this? Oh, excuse me. This is weird, you know, I was …”
Tom Platz: “Insulin, though?”
Aaron Baker: “Yeah. But …”
Tom Platz: “Describe (INAUDIBLE) when you had it.”
Aaron Baker: “Lightheaded, you break out into a sweat.
You feel like you're in a jar, you know, you feel totally uncomfortable.
You feel like, you know, and you feel hot and short of breath.”
[51:08] You feel like raiding your pantry is what you feel like, and clammy, sweaty, and just panicky.
Aaron Baker: “And you feel like something's wrong.
And feel lightheaded and tingly, almost like pins and needles.
I'm — I was fortunate I didn't have a big, big one, but I knew something, you know, was wrong.
And I had carbs, and that's something that makes you think also.
I've had close friends that were a little bit more free and loose with it.
You know, they took a few more chances, they've competed on it, they've carb up on it.
To me, it was just one of those things that — it's just what am I gaining from it?
And, you know, I could have — my last few competitions maybe have used it, maybe have been in a totally different half of the placings, maybe I could have been higher and everything.
But for myself, personally, you know, I can see my wife at my funeral, not knowing why I'm dead, you know?
And because I wanted to win like a few thousand dollars.”
Tom Platz: “That's a concern?”
Aaron Baker: “Oh, most definitely. I mean, I thought about all of that.
And it's like, you think I shared it with her? No.
Because why? Because she probably would have told me, “Look, that's dangerous, I don't want you doing that.”
And it would have been a valid concern, and she would have had every right as a wife to say that, you know, to express that concern, and it was dangerous.
But you will rationalize things to yourself in the name of doing better for yourself family.
And that's an unfortunate thing because with the increased usage and advancement in scientific warfare, chemical warfare involved in the sport, a lot of times it's greater risks.
And you may tell yourself and rationalize that you are doing it for your family, or that you are, you know, trying to take care of your home and whatever, but I really just wasn't comfortable with.
It was, number one, undependable.
Number two, very dangerous.
Number three, it's just something in me that just didn't think it was worth it.
Insulin Use And The Health Risks That Stem From It
Aaron Baker: “You know, if I had a certain type of physique where (INAUDIBLE) being seen on stage or something like that, that's one thing.
But I got the physique that I've always wanted.
And even to place higher, it just seemed so — just seem so shallow, you know, to take that much risk.
You know, I mean, I think you have to look at things like that.
And they're safe ways to do it, but the safest way is, I mean, you think that it should be on stage, we should be tampering with elements and substances in our bodies that — I mean, like thyroids and insulin levels and things like that.
That stuff is like tinkering with your internal wire, your internal circuitry.
And I just don't think that we're really meant to do that.
And you hear rumors of people …”
[54:48] If you screw up insulin, obviously, you can put yourself in a coma very easily.
What I'm saying is the long-term ramifications of use, if anything, insulin could relieve stress on the pancreas in the presence of elevated blood sugar or something like that, induced by exogenous growth hormone use, or by excessive carb intake, and a million things that bodybuilders induce upon themselves.
The steroids and the GH causing cardiovascular issues, enlarging the heart and the ventricle, and all these things, are the things that I'd be most worried about, not things that you would probably be lesser at risk of if you understood the science of insulin.
I feel like some of the things that are fearmongered are not necessarily justified in contrast to the actual risk profile of the anabolics.
You can easily shut down your HPTA horribly and not get it back, where thyroid is the opposite.
I'm just comparing here because that's what he's basically trying to talk about how thyroid and insulin are way worse than steroids, essentially.
I would argue insulin insensitivity or insulin resistance induced by growth hormone, or cardiovascular outcomes like massive heart enlargement, as well as via anabolics, all the things that come along with that, are far more likely to screw you up than abusing T3 and shutting down your thyroid and then having it come back online right after you come off.
There's a lot of evidence that points towards your thyroid can just bounce back instantly pretty much, whereas with steroids, you could be on TRT for life just because of your abuse in a few years even.
As well as GH, there's a lot of outcomes that a lot of people don't consider that are outside the scope of organ growth because that's not even the main thing I'd be concerned of personally.
Anyway, I'm kind of getting off track here, but sometimes I see the wrong things.
I feel like everything is justified to be demonized, don't get me wrong, but I think sometimes when people want to argue about certain things that seem are taboo things that are considered unhealthy, the most unhealthy stuff is the main thing like the steroids and the GH, in my opinion.
Aaron Baker: “You know, I've heard one rumor that one guy has turned himself into a diabetic, and it could just be a rumor. Or, there could be some truth to it.
And I know this guy's a non-insulin user (INAUDIBLE)”
Aaron Baker's Diuretic Use And Diuretic Tests
Tom Platz: “Okay, well, how about things like diuretics, are they used?
Aaron Baker: “Diuretics …
[57:52] This guy's quads, jeez. Those are some pants.
Aaron Baker: “… have really been a real — a real supplement in terms of the competition peak as of — I believe about …”
[58:06] Can we just sit and admire this bodybuilder classic 90's outfit?
He got this vest/coat thing with a stringer underneath.
Is that a stringer? I don't even know.
Then he has the fanny pack on top of the tights. The 90's!
Aaron Baker: “Two to three years ago, it's really been addressed by the premier sanctioning body of the professional competitions.
And it's — we actually had the pro shows, many of them, tested for diuretics.
Nowadays, there's a banned substance list, and get this, it's not steroids, it's diuretics.
Because strangely enough, they're doing it because they care about us.
But they don't check the steroids, how about that?”
Tom Platz: “There's no steroid testing done at the major pro shows.”
Aaron Baker: “No, there's not.”
Tom Platz: “So, you don't need masking agents to — of any kind?”
Aaron Baker: “No, you don't.
Now, there's been a couple of years that they tested the waters, and …”
[59:18] I'd be interested to see what this list was of band diuretics they had back in the 90's because obviously they knew which ones were being used that everyone used.
You had the Aldactone, the Dyazide, the Lasix.
I'm wondering what was even on this list, to begin with, because obviously it was just a front to make it seem like they're testing.
I'm not really sure what the point of it even was.
Aaron Baker: “The qualities of the physiques were definitely downgraded by that, but you would expect that for the first time that, you know what, people will figure out ways to look better naturally, just as erratic testing, there's been, you know, forces you to go back to older ways, like combining Vitamin B6 with Vitamin C, which is, you know, an old way of flushing water out.
There's herbal diuretics that you can take that are not so harsh.
There's some potassium-sparing diuretics, but the ones that were in — being abused were Lasix, which indiscriminately pulls water from your body.
And people will take it to get that harder — rock-hard granite look.
Now, your body is 70% water, so if you just go pulling it out of everywhere, you're going to be pulling it out of (INAUDIBLE) you're going to be pulling it out of tissues and things that you need, your brain.
But for that question about diuretics …”
Tom Platz: “Again, dosage.”
Aaron Baker: “Dosage.”
Tom Platz: “Just before the show or …?”
Aaron Baker: “Just before the show.”
Tom Platz: “How long for the show?”
Aaron Baker: “Usually, the most common and the safest is a potassium-sparing diuretic called Aldactone (INAUDIBLE) helps you — it spares the potassium in your body so you don't crash.”
[1:01:15] I'm guessing he's going to do the classic Aldactone for the week before, leading up to the night before, half a Dyazide because that seems like what everyone's doing.
It’d be interesting to see if he has the exact same thing.
Aaron Baker: “(INAUDIBLE) so much and just throw your electrolyte balance off so much, but it can be abused.
And at one time, myself personally, one show — the first time, excuse me, someone told me I may need to take, they give me a certain dosage.”
Tom Platz: “What was it? (INAUDIBLE)”
Aaron Baker: “Dosage, I believe — and now I'm guessing from memory, but I can explain that — what actually happened.
They gave me, maybe, let's just say they gave me 100 mg tablets.
I started off with half for a couple of days, because you gradually introduce it into your system (INAUDIBLE) is in the third day, maybe one hole for a couple of days.
And then last four days — so, this is just the final week before the show, for four days.
And then maybe go up to 1-1/2 on Friday night or two on Friday.”
Tom Platz: “Started before — it's the week before the show, you're saying?”
Aaron Baker: “Right. Usually, the Monday or Tuesday before that competition (INAUDIBLE)”
Tom Platz: “Every day.”
Aaron Baker: “Right.”
Tom Platz: “And then maybe when you start, a whole every day?”
Aaron Baker: “Right. Now …”
Tom Platz: “What day would you start a whole?”
Aaron Baker: “So, the whole probably a Wednesday. You know, you start half and increase now …”
Tom Platz: “You don't stop. You take Diuretics away through the show.”
Aaron Baker: “Right, all the way up to the competition day.
And when you start coming off, you start to (INAUDIBLE) not — you know, you don't have to go back down to one and then — but you could go half and then a half, just so your body won't rebound, you know, when you need to be taking pictures.
Your body is reacting to not being a new substance because you are manipulating it, you know, to flush out water.
And you get hard, boy, you get rock hard, very valuable tool.
Diuretic Abuse And Its Dangers
Aaron Baker: “But it has been abused.
There has been people taking far too much just to get that rock-hard granite, sliced up anatomy chart look.
But at the same time, they're throwing their electrolytes so far out of balance that it's literally dangerous to be up there.
Now, as good as they look, or we look, you know, I'm not pointing the finger because I (INAUDIBLE) I was in it.
As good as you look up there, you are so unhealthy in the time because your electrolytes are out of balance.
It's so hard to perform up there because you're so dehydrated, you're lightheaded, and you look fantastic.
When I was younger, before I won the state level and, you know, and what have you, someone had given me some diuretics that they had gotten.
I was at this girl's house and she had them, and I forget where I even got them, but they were red., I didn't know anything about them.
I took one and I may have taken two, and I was close to a show, already low carbed, and I remember waking up in the middle of the night, it felt like — it felt like my jaws were like being sucked in, you know.
And actually, it was an electrolyte imbalance to where my muscles were contracting by themselves.
I mean, I woke up in the middle of the night like scared to death.
I'm like, “what is happening?”
You know, and I got up and went in the bathroom and looked, and I looked great, by the way.
So, I mean, I just took some salt, you know, because I didn't know what to do but something simple — take some salt, eat something, you know?
So, I ate and then it subsided, and then, you know, the next day, I'm like, you know, I just got rid of it.”
[1:05:36] Time to switch the video cassette here. Hang on.
Tom Platz: “So, the — if you find the diuretics effect (INAUDIBLE) prior to an event, the week before an event, and described the dosage pattern of the specific Aldactone you utilize.”
Aaron Baker: “Right.”
Tom Platz: “Is there any masking agent to —
Aaron Baker: “For Aldactone, I don't believe so.
But I — on the diuretic, before I answer that, incidentally, I did have — and I’ll explain how I took the dosages the first time.
I had them written down.
Now, the next time (INAUDIBLE) Aldactone, it was a higher dosage, and I didn't clarify that it was a higher dosage.
I just assumed that it was the same thing I got before.
It was twice the amount.
So, I follow the same procedure, and on the day of the show, I looked great, but I was sick to my (INAUDIBLE), I could barely carb up.
I was nauseated, I could barely, you know, take in my carbohydrates to fill my physique out, I could barely eat, even after the prejudging, I was so nauseated I could barely conduct an interview, I just wanted to be left alone.
I got back to my hotel room, and it was so hard to eat food.
And it was, you know, something that I would otherwise find really palatable delicious, and I could barely get it in.
I could barely drink water and everything.
And then, I realized later that it was because I had taken too much, too much.
And I also took herbal energy tablets (INAUDIBLE) to have the stamina to pose on stage.
So, herbs on your stomach, you know, on an empty stomach combined with your electrolytes being topsy-turvy, I was just — I've never felt sicker in a competition.
And later, I learned that that's what it was — it was from diuretics.
And I thought I was following everything to the letter but I neglected to make sure to confirm what I had taken before and confirm, you know, what I was taking this time.
So, there is an incident of my own personal experience that’s — it was pretty harrowing.
Now, you asked me something …”
Masking Agents To Cover Up Diuretic Use
Tom Platz: “Masking agents.”
Aaron Baker: “Masking agents.”
Tom Platz: “For diuretics. Since those are the only things that on the hot top pro shows you’re being tested for.”
Aaron Baker: “Now, the list is quite extensive.
But, there's always a couple of things that aren't up there.
I, this year, learned of something that one of the reigning pros, if not the reigning pro, was — now, this was said — I can't swear to it.
This was told to me, I'm not trying to gossip, but I'm just stating what someone mentioned to me.
And (INAUDIBLE) I've, you know, learned that to the person that trained him for it, has a few tricks up his sleeve.
It's heard that he used a — and you'll find that this is — I'm not the only person that knows about this.
This is — and I shouldn't have known about it, you know what I mean?
So, it was just being discussed behind, you know, yeah, he used this. That's why he looked (INAUDIBLE) shoulders above everybody else at this show and at that show.
An IV drip.
You know, I don't know exactly how it works, but there's something in that — they drip an IV into the arm like the night before the show.
I've also heard mentioned from the same source of expertise that some blood dope might have been — might have been used or incorporate, or that could be how they made that work.”
[1:09:52] See, I don't see why anyone would blood dope. You're already on so much exogenous anabolics that are cranking your blood viscosity and red blood cell count through the roof.
What do you gain by blood doping at that point?
That's just asking for a stroke or something, in my opinion.
Tom Platz: “IV drip would be in regards to …”
Aaron Baker: “Intravenous — sorry, (INAUDIBLE) from my things again.
Intravenous drip into the arm.”
Tom Platz: “What specific drug is this?”
Aaron Baker: “I can't remember the name.
It's some weird name, and (INAUDIBLE) an M.
There's also a diuretic that is not detectable begins with an M that …”
Tom Platz: ” This would be a mean to get around the test?”
Aaron Baker: “This is the means of getting around the test.”
Tom Platz: “For the diuretics?”
Aaron Baker: “Yes.”
Tom Platz: “I see.”
Aaron Baker: “And this guy, one hands down because he's like …”
[1:10:45] I actually have no idea what he's talking about either, so this is kind of interesting.
Aaron Baker: “One of the sports favorite sons, according to this sanctioning body, you know, you can do no wrong, but he was head and shoulders like at phenomenal shape, deserved to win, he looked great, you know, that year, or those two shows.
And I was in those shows, but he looked great, he looked phenomenal, he deserved to win.
He was the best man that day, but an IV, you know, how?”
Tom Platz: “This is something you haven't done before?
You're pretty sure this is what's some of the top guys are doing?”
Aaron Baker: “Yes, and since then, the guy that's been mentoring him on it has been helping out a few other professionals, and sort of, expanding his stable and becoming sort of a guru, if you will.”
Tom Platz: “Do you have any idea what's in the IV drip, or …?”
Aaron Baker: “(INAUDIBLE) told me but it's like something I never heard of.
And I only heard it about two or three times, and a lot is going on, you know, since then.
And I wish I could recall it.
Yeah, I'd state it right here.”
Esiclene And Synthol Use
Tom Platz: “You mentioned before, real quick, Escaline and another …”
Aaron Baker: “Esiclene.”
Tom Platz: “Esiclene, something similar to that?”
Aaron Baker: “Yes. Esiclene is an inflammatory, a water-based irritant that's injected directly into the muscle.”
Tom Platz: “Before the event, primarily?”
Aaron Baker: “Before — well, actually a couple of days or before.
I mean, even the same guy that I just mentioned about the IV drip, in '93, he was winning, it was said that he used to hit each body part with it.”
Tom Platz: “Now, the other drug that you're talking about which is like that drug?”
Aaron Baker: “Okay, then, that's a newer.”
Tom Platz: “Called?”
Aaron Baker: “It's called Synthol.”
Tom Platz: “What would be like the — how many cc's …”
[1:12:48] Synthol is not a drug, it's just sterile MCT oil with some Lidocaine at maybe, alcohol. That's it, it's just oil.
Tom Platz: “… did you put into a muscle like the bicep?”
Aaron Baker: “I think that you would put about half per time.”
Tom Platz: “What have you done?”
Aaron Baker: “I've never used that.”
Tom Platz: “Okay.”
Aaron Baker: “That's (INAUDIBLE) out. And you know, it's been offered to me.”
Tom Platz: “How many cc's in the bicep or …”
Aaron Baker: “One? I mean, I'm not trying to…”
Tom Platz: “You would never use like 10 or 20 cc's?”
Aaron Baker: “Oh, no, no.
I think that'd be a big — you have a lag and a big deformed trunk.”
Tom Platz: “Do you find it actually does increase the muscle size upon injection site (INAUDIBLE)”
Aaron Baker: “Yes, yes, and not to a great degree, but then again, I never tried to blow up my entire muscle.
I — if my outer bicep I wanted to be a little bit more fuller on that day, I would hit it there.
And it would give the desired effect, and it was temporary.
Aaron Baker's Advice And Frustrations About Bodybuilding
Aaron Baker: “One thing that I would like to touch on and emphasize is that the whole reason that I'm discussing this here today is because I really believe that this tape will help some people, and I wanted to educate them.
Not to paint the athletes out as Frankenstein monsters.
And this is not about (INAUDIBLE) I mean, I've — I'm definitely as in as anyone.
But there's a lot of things that I won't do for the sport.
And also, the feeling of being drawn into it and feeling that you must do this in order to remain competitive.
And that's what I think is the real shame is how far do we have to go in order to be deemed great champions?
You know, when did being healthy and looking good seized and we stepped into chemical warfare so much that we don't even look at the effects?
And what will we accept in terms of what we will do, and how far will that go?”
[1:15:04] You'll see in the next 20 years, it gets a lot worse.
Actually, I don't know if it's going to continue to get worse.
I feel like some people are going to start to realize as more of this kind of content emerges.
I don't know why this video got buried.
This is such good message to send to people that are delusional about what pros do and the potential health ramifications of blasting your androgen index 100 fold above what you need or taking stupid amounts of GH, and insulin, and what you should expect from reasonable dosages if you have the genetics for it.
I don't think all these guys are lying.
They all seem to have dosages a lot more in line with what a moderate user would use nowadays when you see guys at 185 pounds using more than these guys even nowadays, it's nuts.
Aaron Baker: “I have come her sad dreaded having a stick myself coming to a competition, you — when you get leaner and leaner, you get sore from the injection sites.”
Tom Platz: “So, you change the injection sites.”
Aaron Baker: “Yes. And you start looking for ow, that still hurts, you know.
And closer to a show, the water-based drugs are in and out of your system faster.
So, you have to do them every other day instead of just twice a week.
It's a dread, it's a sense of dread.
It's something that I hate having to do.
And I hate the negative connotation of being along with it.
I enjoy training, I always have, I enjoy the lifestyle and the look.
The positive things that it's brought me, but one thing I honestly hate, and this is from the heart, is having to address the issue to people that don't understand what I've been through, that don't know me as a person, or how hard I've worked.
And they see some short expose on steroids, and you know, they think they're being brilliant by going (INAUDIBLE) steroids. You take steroids, right?
It's like, I don't want to discuss it with you, you're a moron.
I mean, you don't know what you're talking about.
So, you know, if I could discuss it and actually teach you something, then it would be worth discussing with you.
But the negative connotation that goes along with it, I consider myself a hardworking professional athlete, but I don't enjoy carrying the stigma of being a steroid user.
And I'm not one prone to roid rages and all of this and that.”
Aaron Baker's Take On Roid Rage
Tom Platz: “Does that exists?”
Aaron Baker: “I think that …”
[1:17:49] This guy seems pretty eloquent and well-spoken.
I'm not sure if this guy was one of the most prolific guys in the 90's, but Honest to God it sucks that these guys didn't get the exposure that they deserved back in the day because these guys would be, you know, superstars nowadays with social media and whatnot.
Aaron Baker: “It's like some other drugs, they magnify who you are.
If you're a jackass without them, then you'll be twice the jackass on certain — under certain conditions.
Now, the average Joe, if he hasn't eaten in three hours, he's going to be cranky, but the average grandma hasn't eaten in three hours will be a little, you know, erratic around the edges, you know.
Aaron Baker On Raising Awareness Of Steroid Abuse
Aaron Baker: “But I really believe that this tape will help people.
Coming up as a youth, all I saw was that I will be a professional, and it has progressed quite a bit since that time.
But I do want people to not view it as all these guys are freaks and monsters and drug heads because it's not that simple.
There's a lot of fine athletes and a lot of fine people in this sport, but it's just a shame that we're drawn down this road.
And the sad part is the establishment, the officials, the administration, the powers that they're just standing by long enough to make the money.
And I believe that if our health was such an (INAUDIBLE) naturally, they're testing for diuretics because they don't want anyone else dying.
If they're emphasizing that it's for our own good and for our health, why aren't they testing for steroids, because we make much better products and sell many more magazines with the enhancement of steroids than without.
I personally think (INAUDIBLE) champions would be would be — would be at the top because of hard work, and genetics, and diligence, and nutrition, and what have you.
So with that, I just wanted to, you know, contribute to maybe enlightening somebody about it.
And not in a negative way, because one thing I do resent personally is someone that has no genetics, they've tried to win a bodybuilding at a certain level, and just didn't have what it takes.
And then they go on this steroid — anti-steroid crusade where they slam pro-bodybuilding, and they call us muscle heads, and they call us drug monsters, and all and this (INAUDIBLE).
They try to do the same thing and failed, and then decided to go on a crusade, I really resent that a lot.
You know, there's magazines and there are people that always have to bash.
And that I just — that's just a (INAUDIBLE) that I don't have much respect for.
But, you know, I thank you for listening, and I hope that …”
Tom Platz: “Thank you. Appreciate your involvement very much.
And hopefully, we will educate and we will teach from the up and coming guys really what it's all about.
Not to expose the dirty laundry of sport — of sport form of bodybuilding or other sports, but to make a difference in the sense that we educate, and maybe there's less abuse of procedures they will follow.
And we can get the clear the real understanding of what the sport has evolved to, at this point, because it's something that we, in fact, we do love and it's where we live, it's where we come from, it's our home, it's our neighborhood, and we care about.
At this point, it's time I think somebody really addresses the subject and talks about the way it really is, and what's honestly happening in hopes that there will be less abuse of procedures, less deaths in the sport, and more education.
And hopefully, maybe I said — as I said, less use, and maybe if the testing work to get real, and it could be real if I understand this.
And the IOC is increasing their standards, maybe they'll be a level playing field and will be a lot safer to compete in today's environment, which at this point, as you refer to chemical warfare, and that's the reason for this tape.
Again, it's not to expose the dirty laundry, to expose athletes by any means, it's merely to educate, and to help the problem and to help alleviate some of the problems involved in our sport.”
Conclusion On Aaron Baker's Steroid Cycle
[1:22:40] It kind of sucks how that message obviously kind of got lost over the years.
I don't think I've seen anything since the 90's up to even maybe the past few years, that's really delved into this hard like that.
Unfortunately, it didn't seem to have a good outcome as far as the goal of that tape, but I feel like it's good to bring to light now, especially because it's super enlightening for the young guys who have high aspirations to see something like that, and to really understand genetics and what it takes to be at the top.
Put it in perspective and understand the potential risks and limitations you have on your own outcomes in terms of what you can accomplish and what could be a pipe dream to you.
Perhaps just have realistic expectations and understand what you're getting yourself into is what I'm trying to outline with these videos.
Obviously, exposure of this content, I feel, is good to get out to my audience because I'm sure a lot of you guys haven't seen this, and I didn't even know about it until relatively recently too.
It was even eye-opening for me.
I suspected for a long time that they probably didn't use as ridiculous of dosages as people asserted and thought they did.
Honestly, it was even lower than I thought, but they could be lying, they could be not.
I feel like they're probably more or less telling the truth for the most part, so take from that what you will.
Aaron Baker's Steroid Cycle
After listening to the entire interview, at the peak of Aaron Baker's steroid cycle dosages, he claims his use broke down to the following:
Testosterone Cypionate – 400 mg per week.
Primobolan – 100-200 mg per week
Anadrol – 50 mg per day
Parabolan – Dosage was not specified
Winstrol, Dianabol, Anavar, Halotestin – Reserved for specific phases pre-contest or during mass gaining phases. Dosages were not specified. These were not all utilized at once, he simply mentioned he has used them before, hence them being added to this list.
Growth Hormone – 2 IUs/day, every other day, for 10-12 weeks pre-contest only
Insulin – 10 IUs administered twice a day pre-contest only