This interview discussing Paul Dillet's steroid cycle was recorded by Tom Platz in the 90's.
This interview conducted with Tom Platz was intended to remain anonymous.
But, the internet is the internet, and people can figure out pretty easily with deciphering the 90's technology of looking at these blurred faces and listening to the noise distortion to make an educated guess about who it is.
It might be Paul Dillet, but it could be someone else, so just keep that in mind before delving into this transcript/article.
This is just an educated guess and doesn't necessarily mean that's who is in this video.
Without further ado, let's get into it.
Table of Contents
What Prompted Paul Dillet To Use Steroids
Tom Platz: “At what point in your career did you realize you needed or felt compelled to utilize steroids?”
Paul Dillet: “I think because in any professional sport, what it is that compels you to do that is the competitiveness inside of you.
You know, wanting to win.
And, you know, we all start at an early age.
So, you're young and kind of a hothead.
The only thing you care about is number one.
So, if someone gives you anything, or tell you about anything, that's going to give you an edge.
So, you know, for myself, it's — that was what it is just, you know, just wanting to win.”
Tom Platz: “At what age did you start taking?”
Paul Dillet: “I was 23.”
Tom Platz: “Okay.”
[2:19] 23 years old? I guess back then 23 seemed young.
You have kids who are 16 now that are saucing.
That's kind of crazy how they consider that really young back then.
Now, that would almost be conservative nowadays.
Tom Platz: “I'd like to — I know these are sensitive issues and you're not used to talking about it, but again, your identity is protected, Okay?
And no one's going to know who you are except me and, of course, it will never come from me. I assure you that.
What specific steroids do you find effective for your training?”
Paul Dillet's Testosterone Use
Paul Dillet: “Well, I guess in the offseason, you know, you're basically I'll say staying as best — I'll stay with the basics.
Still something, you know, American — something that, you know, you can get a prescription from of, you know, go to a pharmacy, and get some (INAUDIBLE) which would be like, any kind of Testosterone.”
Tom Platz: “You can — you have the ability to get prescriptions and legally and …”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah, you can get a prescription.
You know, I think that's still something (INAUDIBLE) because I'd …”
[3:23] That's interesting, because a lot of guys assume people in the 90's didn't use Testosterone very often.
The classic 70's and 80's era, everyone thought Testosterone was something that just wasn't even used.
A lot of people think in the 90's no one really touched Testosterone either but evidently, there were doctors prescribing it to bodybuilders.
Paul Dillet: “You know, regardless of what anyone says, you know, athletes are going to do what they're going to do to win.
And they think that maybe it's better for them to write someone a prescription so they know what they're getting is real, instead of on the black market and get something that isn't what it's supposed to be.
And (INAUDIBLE) just going to inject into his body and, you know, do — does more harm than anything else.”
Tom Platz: “Yeah, I've had people I know injected (INAUDIBLE) into the system and all kinds of things.
Paul Dillet: “Without saying (INAUDIBLE) Testosterone is one of your basics — one of the basic things that …”
Testosterone Cypionate + Nandrolone Decanoate (Deca) + Anadrol Use
Tom Platz: “What form of Testosterone do you find most effective in terms of your regime?”
Paul Dillet: “For the offseason, I think Cypionate is best mixed with Deca with, you know, (INAUDIBLE) but also …”
[4:40] Cypionate is a long Ester Testosterone if you aren't aware.
Deca, is a long Decanoate ester attached to Nandrolone, and Nandrolone Decanoate is the official name, but it's commonly referred to as just “Deca”.
Testosterone + Deca is a pretty standard combination, even nowadays.
Paul Dillet: “… will have some androgenic properties, and it also combined with maybe one oral, maybe Anadrol, something like that.
Anadrol 50, you know, maybe one to two tablets a day, depending on the body of the person.
You know, so sometimes some people might think that if I (INAUDIBLE) one a day, I get this much.
But if I do three or four, I'll get that much, which is actually, for me, that's actually the reverse.
I think it's best to take a small — a small amount of three, four different things than to try to cram two things into your body and overload your system.”
[5:44] I agree with that too.
Obviously, not in the context of performance-enhancing use, of course.
I'm just saying that if I was still trying to push the envelope with higher than TRT dosages, that would be my preferred approach as well, rather than overloading my system with something that fulfills one mechanism of action, using smaller amounts of several pathways of growth with less overall side effects and more compounding growth.
Anadrol at 50 to 100 mg per day seems pretty common among the 90's guys, which isn't much.
I'm surprised I haven't heard any Dbol use yet.
I think maybe that was more 70's, but I thought that would be chosen a bit more among these guys.
You would think you'd take after what the guys before you did and sort of adopt their principles, but it doesn't necessarily seem like that's the case.
Seems like Anadrol is the go-to oral of choice.
I suppose probably because it had more clinical application at the time being prescribed for an array of people, including children.
It was probably a lot more readily accessible, I would think.
I don't know for sure, though.
Paul Dillet's Offseason Steroid Cycle
Tom Platz: “Well, along the lines of your speaking of dosages, I mean, relative to the drugs you just mentioned, in the offseason, since we're staying in the offseason, what would those be like?”
Paul Dillet: “I think, you know, for a guy that's 240 lbs, 400 mg of 500 mg Cypionate a week is sufficient.
You know, I've heard stories of guys doing whole bottles in one week, which is — that's nuts …”
[7:29] 400 to 500 mg a week of Testosterone, that sounds a lot lower than people would assume somebody this is size would be taking, that's for sure.
Over the years, I've realized the shortcomings to overloading a pathway that just aromatizes into estrogen and 5-alpha reduces into DHT, which is a terrible hormone for muscle building.
I don't think that overloading that pathway is a smart way to go.
I think 400 to 500 mg of Testosterone makes complete sense when in conjunction with other things with efficacious dosages for the intentions of this protocol.
Paul Dillet: “It's crazy.
You know, all you got to do is — those are the kinds of guys you know, they're red, they're bloated, they have really bad skin.
That's a sign of, you know, you're overtaxing your body.
And your body is not utilizing it.
So, it's — you know, your body is trying to secrete it through your pores.
You know, so that dosage would be more than sufficient for anyone.”
Tom Platz: “So, if you combine that with …”
Paul Dillet: “With another 400 mg of Deca.
Or 1 to 2 Anadrols a day.
Tom Platz: “Per week, 400 mg of Deca a week?”
Paul Dillet: “Yes. And 1 Anadrol a day.”
[8:49] 400 mg of Deca per week with 400 to 500 mg Testosterone with 50 to 100 mg of Anadrol per day.
It's funny because that's something that a lot of guys would do on their first or second cycle nowadays.
Maybe even more than that.
A lot of people wouldn't believe that that's a dosage that would be sufficient for somebody of this size.
Could he be lying?
Of course, obviously, but it's entirely possible he's telling the truth.
Frankly, I think if you have freak genetics, you have Myostatin deficiencies and polymorphisms, you can become an incredibly successful bodybuilder with what would be considered by many to be moderate dosages.
It doesn't really come down to stupid high dosages.
I just think it comes down to saturating androgen receptors, then eating enough food and training.
This guy is using 400 to 500 mg Testosterone, which I don't think you really get a whole lot above and beyond that, when you start pushing it above 500 mg, where you're just forcing yourself to need AI's, which is going to hinder IGF-1, it's going to smash your lipids.
Even worse, it's going to inhibit the literal mechanism of growth which you sought to max out by using something that aromatizes into estrogen in the first place.
And then adding Deca in conjunction with 50 to 100 mg of Anadrol, that's super modest in today's standards.
Paul Dillet On Drug Use Transitioning To Contest Prep
Paul Dillet: “That's more than enough.”
Tom Platz: “Now, how long might you do that during the offseason?”
Paul Dillet: “I think you do that maybe — you don't have to do anything throughout the whole year.
If you have a show, you might want to start 16 weeks up.
And you would do that for the first — from 16 weeks up to 10 weeks.
Once you get to the 10-week period, then you want to switch from Deca and from Cypionate.
What you want to switch to is maybe Propionate, which is quick acting, stays in the system.
A lot shorter time goes in a lot quicker, and it doesn't retain all that water.
So, that would be good.
And I get …”
[11:05] I don't necessarily buy into that either.
I used to think the same thing that maybe Enanthate and Cypionate and Decanoate and long esters hold more water.
Maybe they do to some extent, but I've seen a lot of guys come into shows on long esters and get lean enough, and as a result get really dry.
It's just a matter of losing enough fat most of the time from what I've seen.
The whole switch to short ester thing, I'm not really sure.
In practical application, I'm not certain it makes a huge difference.
I think it just comes down to if you're too fat or not at the end of the day.
There's evidence in the clinical data that shows increased nitrogen retention with the long esters.
Whether that also equates to some intramuscular water, I'm not really sure.
Arguments can be made both ways.
I don't think it really makes it a big difference, either way, to be honest.
But, it's interesting to see where that theory came from because the guys in the 90's were even doing this, and still to this day that is a commonly adhered to principle precontest.
Paul Dillet: “… Deca, I mix it up with Primobolan Depot, which is a pure anabolic, at the same time …
[12:21] At 10 weeks out, he's swapping the short ester from Testosterone Cypionate to Testosterone Propionate, and he's adding in Primobolan.
He's saying it's pure anabolic, which is not actually true.
In reality, it does have a level of androgenicity and I've actually covered that in a recent article, where I compared 1200 mg of Primobolan to 300 mg of Testosterone Propionate in a clinical study.
Granted it does have a favorable ratio of anabolic to androgenic activity, but it's by no means purely anabolic, where you have no androgenicity whatsoever.
It's still going to induce virilizing side effects in women.
It's still going to cause androgenic sides in men, it's not like a SARM.
Even SARMs aren't 100% tissue selective, nothing's come that far yet.
Therefore, it's not purely anabolic, just as a reference there.
Paul Dillet: “…androgenic effect.”
Tom Platz: “The doses of the Primo …”
Paul Dillet: “The dose of the Primo, Primo is really mild, perhaps want a safer, safer (INAUDIBLE)
So, you could do 500 to 600 mg of that per week.
And (INAUDIBLE) the Anadrol in, but what you'd want to do is cycle it.
So, if you started 16 weeks out, you can go one month straight and stop for a month, then you get on again to give your system a chance to take — get a break.
And also, you might become a creature of habit, so it doesn't get adapted to it.
[13:53] I have some critique about what he just said.
Granted I'm just some dude reviewing information from a super genetic phenom in the 90's.
But, keep in mind, he didn't have access to the internet, and we can actually look at clinical studies and do extensive research.
Anyway, the first thing he said, which should be noted is the dosage of 500 to 600 mg of Primobolan per week, which I feel like a lot of people would consider may be moderate, but even perhaps low based on what a lot of guys are doing.
Most guys won't run Primobolan less than 700 mg because they think it's so weak.
And then he's talking about how you should cycle off the Anadrol every four weeks and then go back on four weeks to give your body a break because your body is going to get used to it.
Well, first of all, giving your system a break, I don't know if he's referring to your liver due to its hepatotoxicity, which I could understand.
It's funny because this arbitrary four weeks on, four weeks off rotation has been passed through the grapevine for decades.
Is this based on some sort of consistent bloodwork that has shown at the four-week mark, your liver enzymes are cranked through the roof, and then you need four weeks to come off and clean them up to baseline?
I don't really know. I doubt it.
In clinical data, it's not like they're cycling patients on and off of Anadrol every four weeks.
I'm assuming that's what he's referring to is the liver toxicity of Anadrol.
Secondly, he's mentioned the body getting used to Anadrol.
That's not the case, whatsoever.
Androgen receptors actually upregulate in the presence of exogenous androgens, they don't downregulate contrary to popular belief.
What does happen however is that when anabolics enter the body or are endogenously produced, Myostatin elevates in parallel to prevent you from gaining too much muscle.
Unless you're Myostatin deficient, then that's a bit different, but 99.999% of people have functioning Myostatin genes without genetic polymorphisms.
Myostatin increases, which would then inherently inhibit your progress just due to the presence of the hormone, not because your body gets used to it necessarily.
When you're in a calorie deficit too, the point is to retain tissue, it's not to necessarily grow.
I'm not sure what is accomplished via going on and off in the theory of your body “getting used to it”.
I guess, it sort of gets used to it, but it's more so your inherent defense mechanism preventing you from getting to 400 pounds of lean muscle because your body is not supposed to get that muscular.
There are feedback loops in place to regulate that.
Growth Hormone Use
Paul Dillet: “About 10 to 12 weeks, I started some growth hormone with that. You know, again, that goes by body weight, you know, and …”
Tom Platz: “Okay. So, what you've used in the past in terms of growth hormone might be …”
Paul Dillet: “For my myself, I've never — I've never gone up to as high as (INAUDIBLE) IUs a day. We hit all sort of — again …”
[17:18] By the way, this is a VHS tape, and those glitches on the audio, where it cuts off his voice, that's not me, that's them.
Right there where you couldn't really tell what his dose was, that was not my doing, unfortunately.
Paul Dillet: “Yeah, this is — this you would do maybe about 12 weeks out.”
Tom Platz: “Okay. But to increase the offseason, you're calling the first month …”
Paul Dillet: “The first month, because, you know, there's no reason — if you do two shows a year.”
[17:57] I don't know if he said eight, I can't even tell.
Paul Dillet: “It all goes by the body weight.
You know, each individual is different.
So, again, more is not necessarily better.
I just felt that a good mixture of (INAUDIBLE) growth hormone mixed with Primo and Deca, somehow it just — gone up to as high as 10 IUs a day.”
Paul Dillet: “It all goes by the body weight. You know, each individual is different. So, again, more is not necessarily better.
I just felt that a good mixture of (INAUDIBLE) growth hormone …”
[18:43] That's true, I should touch on is more is not better, especially in a contest prep phase.
If you're trying to use growth hormone for hyperplasia and boosting your IGF in the offseason to grow, that's one thing, where blasting your levels to acromegaly levels, perhaps makes more sense.
But, in the context of lipolysis, your lipolysis benefits are pretty much maxed out at a few IUs per day, depending on your body weight.
That's with a feedback loop in place where those dosages need to be split up.
There's definitely a huge diminishing returns effect in a contest prep with GH, just as a reference point there.
Paul Dillet: “… mixed with Primobolan and Deca, sometimes with just Testosterone (INAUDIBLE) mixed together as a good combination for a pre-contest.”
[19:33] If you want to see the data on that, by the way, I don't want to get into like a 20-minute rant about the clinical data that supports that statement regarding limited lipolysis effects via GH dosages, go look at my article A Comprehensive Analysis Of Eric Kanevsky’s Steroid Cycle.
Somewhere in the middle there, I detail exactly where the rate of diminishing returns is in regards to lipolysis with exogenous GH usage.
Importance of Cleaning Out Your Body Of Steroids
Tom Platz: “So this is like, again, four months out, right?”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah, this is (INAUDIBLE) maybe on 12 weeks out.”
Tom Platz: “Okay, but to increase the offseason, you're calling the first month …”
Paul Dillet: “The first month because, you know, there's no reason — I mean, if you do two shows a year, realistically, you only need 12 weeks.
So, you go on for 12 weeks.
It takes your body 12 weeks to get yourself in shape.
Once at 12 (INAUDIBLE) time period is up, your show is here, it's over, it's done.
You detoxify yourself, drink a lot of fluid.
You take Saw Palmetto for, you know, for your (INAUDIBLE).
Milk thistle for the liver, you know, dandelion, all these things.
Cranberry pills for the kidneys.
And, of course, you have to go and get your blood work always go to check up before and after every show.
You know, which would be — which is the safer way to go.”
Always Consult Your Doctor and Opt For Periodic Checkups
Tom Platz: “As one of the top guys in the world, you work with a doctor like …”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah. I mean, you definitely want to have someone in your corner who …”
[21:15] Even back then, they're stressing the importance of cleaning out your body and coming off totally.
I'm assuming he's talking about coming off totally and not cruising.
Talking about getting blood work done, I guess that's what the checkup is for, I'm assuming.
I don't think Saw Palmetto does much, to be honest, and milk thistle.
What's going to determine if your liver is functioning correctly is your diet, your genetics, and not being on a ton of drugs.
Obviously, they have a “less is more” mentality and safety first.
Well, obviously not safety first, if they're walking around 300 lbs and using supraphysiological levels of androgens, but it's a lot more conservative than modern day.
Paul Dillet: “… and it's anything else, you know, if you have cancer, you know, you have to have a doctor that prescribes and tell you what to take, what's the dosage, you know, or any kind of health problem.
So, if you're going to do something like this, you need someone also who you're going to prescribe and someone who's going to tell you, this is too much, this is too little, and you know, point you in the right direction, instead of shooting in the dark and going and walking in the dark.
And if I go into a room where there's no lights, I mean, you may make it to the other end, but then again you may like maybe bump into a coffee table, you know?
So, turn on the lights to where you're going.
And best to turn the lights on is, you know, go and see someone who, you know, is more knowledgeable and not some guru, you know, who say (INAUDIBLE) to a doctor.”
Cycling Off For 7-8 Months Each Year
Tom Platz: “During the year, is there a particular amount or number of months or weeks that you do not take steroids?”
Paul Dillet: “Well, you know, I was one of the top bodybuilders and I only need to compete maybe once a year.
So, I think being off stage now for several months, you know, it's been beautiful.
After eight months, it's great, because no one wants to — sometimes, I think people are under the impression that, you know, you enjoy doing this.
At this — at this level of the game, it's about making — you know, it's about making a buck.
It's about, you know, taking care of your family, paying the bills, and people can point the finger at you.
But in every professional sport, you know, you do what you got to do.
When it comes down to your — you know, whether it's your family, or this, you're going to choose your family.
And this is the — if this is your means of making a living, some guys don't realize that there's a life outside of bodybuilding.
You know, if you have a family then you realize that.
If you have a family then you're going to realize that, you know, all the consequences that can come from it.
So, therefore, you want to stay off it as long as you possibly can.
You know, the longer you stay on, the more — the more chance you'll have — you will harm to yourself.
You know, so from me to enjoy the fact that I can stay off for, you know, seven or eight months each time.”
[24:34] He's claiming he comes off and he's only on steroids for four to five months a year.
I don't really know about that for somebody his size, but who am I to say.
It's entirely possible that he built his foundation blasting for much longer durations than that and he can just sustain it now with less abuse now, I'm not sure though as he hasn't elaborated on that specifically.
Tom Platz: “In regards to staying off that long, are there exhibitions that come on the rise during the year that — how do you handle that circumstance?”
Paul Dillet: “Well, of course, (INAUDIBLE) you have — you do your appearances all year long, hopefully.
But I can't let that dictate my health, you know, because you can have all the money in the world, but if you don't have your health, it doesn't mean — it doesn't mean anything.
So, you know, I try to — I try my best to stay in decent condition, you know, despite doing at least still three, four days a week, half an hour cardio, still eat what I want, but watch what I — I still watch what I eat.
I'm still training pretty hard, you know?
There's no — there's no reason because you're not taking this — you're not taking something means that you can't go in the gym and put 100% in.
Granted, you don't have the same recovery time, you just …”
Tom Platz: “Without the steroids, you don't have the same recovery.”
Paul Dillet: “You know, it does help you — I think you can get a lot — you can get less rest and still go back to the gym and be 100%.
It helps with your joints and stuff like that.
So in that sense, it does — it does do some — you know, it does — there are some benefits to it, you know, at the same time, you're not — you're not pushing it on anyone, you know?”
Paul Dillet's Health Considerations
Tom Platz: “So, there are definitely some health considerations you're thinking about.”
Paul Dillet: Definitely. I mean, you know, I get — like I said, if you don't have a family, sometimes it can make you reckless.
Now, if you have a family, it just makes you think twice.
I mean, because nothing is worth — you know, nothing is worth your life.
And, you know, it's unfortunate that you have people who — they do stay on all year round.
They're afraid of looking a certain way when they go and make a guest appearance.
I mean, if I make a guest appearance, if — like I said, I try to look the best I can, but if it's not good enough for you, then there's nothing I can do about that.
Because you're still going to be hiding some — you can really appreciate once I'm on stage, but you can't — you're not really appreciating me as a person, you know, myself as a person.
And how — you have to realize and say, hey …”
[27:15] One thing I think that should be noted is if this is Paul Dillet, he's noticeably downsized in recent years.
It's really commendable because he's talking about health and the importance of coming off and the importance of staying on top of your health.
It's one thing for a bodybuilder to deal with the fact mentally that he's going to have to take what he's doing 10 steps back and take his foot off the gas and probably never gain muscle again because he can't blast high dosages anymore, but it's another thing entirely for somebody like this, who is 300 lbs lean, to have to accept mentally that they're going to literally watch all of their hard work just melt in front of their eyes over the next few years once they stop blasting these insane dosages.
Actually, his dosages weren't even insane, assuming that's what he actually took.
But, pounding that much food training as hard as he was, taking whatever he took, the mental fortitude that it would take for this guy to drop from where he was at in this video to where he's at now.
If you don't know what he looks like now, go look at him and you'll be shocked.
You would not even know that it was this guy in this video, assuming that it's actually him, of course, I don't actually know, I'm just guessing.
Somebody like this, who's walking around at 300 lbs lean, is in the highest risk group of guys on the chopping block for being a bodybuilding statistic, and has a high risk of heart failure.
It's always the mass monsters that are the most prone to heart disease because your body just has to work that much harder to circulate oxygen and blood around.
Your heart has to support 300 pounds of lean mass.
That's an insane workload to put on a body.
That's why most of the bodybuilders who dropped in their 30s are the really big mass monsters.
At least that's what you hear about the most, I guess.
I would assert that the more muscle is on your frame, the more stress it puts on your cardiovascular system.
For somebody like Paul to go from this, and then drop 100-plus pounds of muscle to become healthier, it's really commendable when you think about your family, your friends and everyone close to you.
Something that should be said about that, because a lot of guys don't have the mental fortitude to allow their body to go through that downward spiral of losing everything they built over the years that their entire image is based off of.
When it comes down to it, at the end of the day, do you want to live a long healthy life, or do you want to stay 300 lbs and live another 10 to 20 years maybe?
A lot of the time, that's what it seems to come down to in bodybuilding, and definitely something to take note of.
Paul Dillet: “… think about his health.
So therefore, he can't be, I mean, in Olympia condition all year — all-year long.
You know, basically should just be …
You know, it's just the fact that you get an opportunity to meet these guys in person and get on stage, you know, they — they're not at their best, but at the same time, it's just you appreciate the fact that you never — you really can't see them all the time.
So, maybe once in your whole life, you may get to see them right there in front of you.
So, just just take it for what it is.
You know, just appreciate them for that moment.
You can't (INAUDIBLE) that you can't — you can't get down on it when someone says, oh, he looks like shit and you know?
I look like shit but I'm happy.”
[31:04] See, this is really good too, because a lot of people rag on guys who show up for guest posing when they're obviously out of shape and not diced to the socks like they are when they go on stage normally for a show.
It's unrealistic to expect a bodybuilder to look in shape year-round, even if it is their job.
I remember Andreas Munzer was purportedly within two weeks striking distance of being show ready year-round or something insane like that, and he was doing guest posing all the time because he had the most insane conditioning.
And then, he had one of the worst deaths, unfortunately.
If you actually go look at the details, it's pretty brutal about what actually caused it.
At the end of it, it wasn't just heart failure.
Definitely something to be noted here.
Granted, I don't know if you should really accept guest posing jobs if you look bad.
At the same time, you shouldn't expect a bodybuilder to look insane year-round, because it's just unrealistic.
Even the most gifted guys, expecting them to look big and shredded year-round, it's unrealistic, and it's not sustainable.
Paul Dillet's Take On Insulin Use
Paul Dillet: “I guess I'm a happy piece of shit.”
Tom Platz: “We mentioned steroids and we mentioned growth hormone, what about insulin?
Is that — is insulin a drug that you believe in using?”
Paul Dillet: “No, I just — in certain thing, certain places, sometimes you got to — you got to draw the line.
You have to draw the line.
I'm not a diabetic, I have no reason to be using insulin.
[32:54] Obviously, that's not necessarily true, not that he's not a diabetic, the fact that he has no reason to be using insulin.
Especially, if you're using growth hormone, you're constantly spiking your glucose levels, it could actually potentially be relieving stress on your pancreas by using insulin in conjunction with the exogenous growth hormone.
Who knows what his fasting blood sugar is like, what his insulin levels are like.
I can't see this guy's blood work, so I have no idea if he actually needed it or not.
But, a lot of bodybuilders who use high dosages of GH, they would probably benefit from some insulin, not even in the context of trying to gain muscle, but just to prevent beta cells from burning out, and your pancreas from functioning without as much of a workload on it.
Obviously, it's something to speak with your physician about and not listen to random people on the internet, but I'm just saying.
Paul Dillet: “I think food to gain weight.
So, therefore, I mean, you just got to eat.
You know, I think sometimes it's gone a little too far, you know, where —
Seems like every one is looking for a shortcut, and there shouldn't be any shortcut because only the best of the best should be here.
And it shouldn't be because of drugs or anything, it should be because of hard work, dedication, sacrifice, you know, trying to have something live on.
The guys before myself have worked long and hard, and made no money, you know, to get someone like myself to this point, where we actually can make a living from it, and don't have to work.
I think it's sad that it's at a point now where people dying.”
Tom Platz: “It is?”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah, a lot of guys in the past, you know, the sport that they built they see it being in jeopardy, you know?
Because of some young hothead, who just don't want to go in the gym and do the work or just don't want to diet long enough. You know, so …”
Tom Platz: “You mentioned something earlier — not to take you (INAUDIBLE) this point, but it's a very interesting point.
And I appreciate your sincerity and your truthfulness about how you feel about it.
But you mentioned GH, you use up to 9 IUs a day.”
Paul Dillet: “Right.”
Tom Platz: “Does that go on for months at a time or?
Paul Dillet: “I think anywhere from 4, 5 months at a time.
[35:18] So, he did say 9 IUs earlier with that part.
I couldn't figure out what he said.
9 IUs of GH.
Paul Dillet: “You know, but …”
Tom Platz: “That duration might be …”
Paul Dillet: “I'd say about 10 weeks, you know.”
Tom Platz: Up to the show? You don't get off prior to the show?
Paul Dillet: “You get off about two weeks off from the show or a week because it doesn't — it does make you retain some fluid.”
Tom Platz: “So you would stop steroids and growth?”
Paul Dillet: “You know, I would — you know, I would — you know, I personally and I would suggest also anything oil based you know, stop about three weeks out.
Stick more with more water-based compounds which would be like Winstrol depot or Testosterone suspension.”
[36:05] One thing I should note that I forgot to touch on earlier is it seems like these guys grow into shows.
They take a long time off, assuming he's telling the truth.
He's off for over seven months and then he basically gains all the size in a few months and gets shredded going into the show simultaneously.
In that case, higher GH dosages meant for muscle growth make more sense as lipolysis isn't the only goal for these individuals.
Granted, 9 IUs still seems pretty damn high to me.
I've seen in my own blood work personally with 3 IUs of high-quality, pharma grade GH and it was at 489 ng/mL.
That was only 3 IUs, so I can't even imagine what 9 would equate to.
That's acromegaly levels already on 3 IUs.
You can just imagine what that would do with long-term use, and probably justify the use of insulin even more so.
It seems like a horrible idea to me to not use insulin alongside 9 IUs of GH.
Then, he claims he dropped the GH and oil based compounds three weeks out and switches exclusively to water-based steroids.
Obviously, you can see the mindset these guys have and their logic in getting rid of compounds that hold water, and introducing things that are in and out of the system quickly with the theory that it's dryer.
Using DHT derivatives like water-based Winstrol and faster acting Testosterone and whatnot to not hold subq water seems pretty commonplace in this era, and even nowadays too.
Paul Dillet: “Which again, anything that's water-based can also be a lot safer because it stays in your system a lot shorter.
The lifespan is about 36 hours for the suspension.
So, it's only in your system for 36 hours and it's out in comparison to something that's going to stay there for months.
“Yeah, much longer time to do — to do damage.
So, it has that much, you know …”
Tom Platz: “Much longer.”
Paul Dillet: You know, all those — anything that's water-based doesn't retain any fluid whatsoever, and will still keep fullness in the muscle. Yeah.”
Paul Dillet's Take On Diuretic Use
Tom Platz: “Okay. The next topic I'm thinking about is diuretics.
Is that a part of your program as well?
Paul Dillet: No, because right when I do Test and (INAUDIBLE) that's been, you know, eliminated.
I think most of the time when athletes get in trouble, it's not from steroids, because, you know, from — in the past you never heard anything happen to any of the guys from back in the 70s, early 80s.
You know, it's more — it's more in the 90s.
You know, the new crop of bodybuilders.
I think what it is, is they just took the whole diuretic thing a little too far.
I know, by the fact — by the fact that the IFBB has implicated now, the drug testing that shows, I think is cut down a lot of any kind of fatality happening there, anything like, you know — so, no, there's no diuretic in the plan.
And for any amateur, I would suggest leave it alone, because it does more harm than good.”
Tom Platz: “So, you've never …”
[39:41] That's interesting because most of the other guys are talking about using the diuretics.
I can't even think of a bodybuilder off the top of my head that did get busted for diuretics in the 90's.
I think Nasser did.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
I'm not even 100% sure if that's a fact or not.
I don't know how heavily this rule was implemented to begin with, but it doesn't seem like it was that effective at restraining guys from using it except with Paul here, assuming it's Paul.
Apparently, he didn't use any, which is interesting.
Tom Platz: “Do you use diuretics prior to a show?”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah. I definitely have in the past, you know?”
Tom Platz: “Any problems with diuretics?”
Paul Dillet: “None that I can, you know, go into. But, again, it's hard — it's hard to — when there's no one supervising, no one — no one medically monitoring, telling you, you know, how much — what's a good dosage?”
Paul famously “froze” on stage from what we can only assume was diuretic use at the 1994 Arnold Classic, so I'm assuming the reason he's saying this is because he knows if he admits he had an issue, it would be incredibly easy for viewers to then put 2 and 2 together.
It was a pretty huge incident after all, and if he told the story of what happened to him it would be obvious it is him who's being interviewed.
Paul Dillet: “I mean, you know, you're assuming.
Now, you're cutting your fluid, you're cutting your sodium
So, you don't know when you're dehydrated.
I mean, everyone is dehydrated, but to what level?
You know, you can be dehydrated and still fine.
But to what level you're dehydrated, where it becomes severe?
You know, so (INAUDIBLE)
When I was using any kind of diuretic, it would be Aldactone which really is not — it's not really a diuretic.
It's — all it does is cuts off your Aldosterone level, which stops you from when you get nervous, the water comes to the surface of the skin or the night before you take a (INAUDIBLE) which again, it's still — it's still a diuretic but it's still a more milder form in comparison to Lasix, you know, or anything injectable, anything like that.”
[41:49] See, it's funny because this is all the exact same stuff that is parroted around today.
Not necessarily saying it doesn't work, it obviously does.
Dyazide the day before, having a half Dyazide the night before and Aldactone the week leading up, and Lasix is too sketchy to risk using.
Aldactone I think is a terrible drug, to be honest.
That's just my opinion.
It's an anti-androgen use for males who want to transition to female.
It's super hard to fill out on it.
I've used it a couple of times, and I'm just not a fan.
It strings out the physique brutally.
It's kind of interesting how it's the exact same protocol being used in the 90s as a lot of gurus are giving out now, which is using Aldactone in peak week up until the day before and the Dyazide, etc.
By the way, most gurus, I can't speak for all of them, but most of them don't know how to interpret hydration and kidney stress.
It's incredibly risky to assume some random guru has credentials and knows what he's talking about from a health risk standpoint when it comes to diuretics.
I feel like you have to know this stuff inside and out yourself, especially when it comes to diuretics.
If you're just trusting some random guy to tell you how to regulate how your body is functioning and balancing electrolytes, you're literally putting potential organ failure in the hands of this person.
This is stuff that you don't just leave up to chance and hope that the guy knows what he's talking about based on his track record.
Go research how all of these diuretics are used yourself and their mechanism of action.
This is not something to mess around with and just trust some random protocol that was designed for you from some guy that you paid $1,000 to.
I have a friend that almost died from diuretic use.
He was healthy, and then just like that, diuretics can literally take you from being healthy to nearly killing you in a matter of hours while you attempt to nail your conditioning for a show.
Be extremely careful with diuretics, and ideally, just avoid them entirely is what I would advise.
Paul Dillet's Scariest Experiences With Drugs
Tom Platz: “Have you ever had a circumstance or a problematic situation which really scared you?”
Paul Dillet: “Well, I've had moments, you know, where you — makes you think twice about what you're doing, you know?”
Tom Platz: “For instance — without indicting yourself.”
Paul Dillet: “Yes. It'd be — it'd be hard for me to do it without, you know…”
Tom Platz: “Implicating yourself? Okay.”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah. I mean, but it sounds like, you know, (INAUDIBLE) the hotel room and, you know, you feel — you can feel like, you know, like a tingle all over your body.
But you look in the mirror, you look incredible, you know?”
[45:18] One thing that I'm wondering about this whole thing is, obviously, most of the bodybuilders stayed anonymous with the exception of Lee Priest.
He just blatantly went out and said whatever he wanted.
I'm wondering if this actual series contributed to him getting screwed at the Olympia with his placements.
I would assume the IFBB would not want their bodybuilders talking about their steroid use openly and showing their faces on camera.
Especially not back then in the 90's when things like this were a lot more taboo to discuss.
There are probably a lot of compounding factors, but I'm wondering if that was one of the main ones that resulted in him getting screwed over.
He was screwed on some of his placements a handful of times, at least.
I'm wondering if this literal series had something to do with it, which is something that just popped up in my head right now.
Paul Dillet: “You look like something out of a desert, you know.
Well, that's kind of — that's the point where, you know, I think I'm in trouble, too.
Because it's too — it's too much, you know, it's too dry, sort of to the point where, how much water is really in your body?
You know, and then, if you start having a problem in your hotel room with cramping, what's going to happen when you go on stage, where, you know, the lights can be 120 degrees and you're being called out — call outs after call outs after call outs, you start secreting more fluid, which you don't already have.
So, I mean, there's a potential right there, you know?”
Paul Dillet's Annual Steroid Cycle Expense
Tom Platz: “Based on some of the drugs we talked about, GH and steroids, and alike, on an estimation — your estimate — what would you estimate would be an annual expense to get ready for the — for the Olympia each year?”
Paul Dillet: “$15,000.”
Tom Platz: “$15,000? There are other guys who mentioned numbers of like $100,000.”
Paul Dillet: “Oh, God, no. That's crazy. I mean, why the hell would you spend $100,000 to make $100,000?”
[47:24] $15,000, that still seems like a lot though.
Back then, think about $15,000 over 20 years ago now.
I'm assuming most of that expense is put towards GH based on his dosage precontest.
His steroid use is definitely not nearly that expensive.
Paul Dillet: “No, I mean, I would have — I spent $20,000 and $25,000, you know?
I mean, I think the crazy — you know, I think — I think I'm crazy spending $15,000, you know?”
Tom Platz: “I understand.”
Paul Dillet: “Because you're not guaranteed anything, you know.
So, if you want to try to make — trying to make a buck when you're actually spending, you know, you have to weigh it out and ask yourself, is it worth it, you know?
I mean, would I be better off keep my $15,000 on my pocket, you know?
And just be a freak and guest pose and never compete.
Or, you know, I mean, I see all the time.
I asked myself, how did these guys survive?
How did they do so many shows in a year, where I —
You know, even after I spent $5,000, which if you're spending $5000, you're doing four shows a year, you know?
I just can't see how it can be healthy, you know, to do four or five, six shows in one year?
You know, I mean, your body is taking a punishment, it's taking a pound and, you know, burn a hundred grand?”
Paul Dillet's Take On Genetics In Bodybuilding
Tom Platz: “How do you account for the fact that you just mentioned, I mean, you're naturally a big man close to 300 lbs?
In my day when I was competing, you're over 200 pounds, you're big.
I think it's just, you know, genetics nowadays and the drugs or …?”
Paul Dillet: “It's what's in the water.
It's like the basketball players and, you know, football players.
Just the other day I was watching a football game, I remembered saying how they'd show you 10 years ago, what the average team, what their linemen weighed and five years later their linemen, they've gained 50 lbs.”
Tom Platz: “You think it's mostly genetics?”
Paul Dillet: “I think a lot of it is better nutrition, better equipment.
You know, it just seems like every generation, you know, things change.
You know, how you (INAUDIBLE) all of these basketball players being so tall, you know? I mean …”
[49:48] I think it would be naive to not mention the growth hormone and insulin use in the 90's relative to the 70's and 80's, as well as accessibility to other hormones that weren't used in the 70's and 80's.
Not necessarily more efficacious or anything, but there's obviously more variety and things that didn't seem to be commonplace in the 70's that a lot of guys are getting now.
In the 70's, it seemed like it was Dbol, Primobolan, stuff like that, but now you have guys using Testosterone, you have guys using GH, you have guys using insulin, you have guys using Anadrol, etc.
I haven't heard any Trenbolone yet though, which is interesting.
Paul Dillet: “(INAUDIBLE) now, you know, for a guy to be 6'9” (INAUDIBLE) he's a god.
Back in the day, you know, a God was like 6'1″, 6'2″, 6'3″.
When a guy was 6'4″, they are like, oh, he's pretty — you know?”
Tom Platz: “Uh-hmm. You're right.”
Paul Dillet: “Now, it's the guy is 6'9”, yeah, he's short.
Like, yeah. So, it just seemed like, I mean, nothing ever stays the same in every generation.
It just seemed like it keeps evolving, you know?”
Tom Platz: “I think some people, you know, they view our sport, especially the guys, you know, that are up and coming, think it's genetic — it's not necessarily genetics exclusively, it's more like drugs, designer drugs, chemical warfare, and — but from your point of view, you feel it's more genetic?”
[51:23] I think it's genetic and genetic response to the drugs, and denser population, leaving more genetic outliers in sheer number.
That's what I think anyway.
There's more genetic anomalies because of the larger population who respond insanely well to drugs with insane structures and muscle bellies and genetic response, in general.
That's my take.
I'm assuming he's probably going to say something similar, but we'll see.
Paul Dillet: “Genetics is everything.
I mean, it's either you have it or you don't.
I know you've seen guys where you go in the gym and you've taken off two, three months in training, and you've dropped 30, 40 pounds.
And you come back and you pass them, and they'll be at the same position.
(INAUDIBLE), you know, some people have it, some people don't.
I think the guys who are good with or without any drugs (INAUDIBLE) good.
You know, number one, they just have — you know, they have — their heart is in it.
You know, if you — if you half-ass and coming in thinking that, you know, I'm going to take drugs, and I'm going to be like one of the top guys (INAUDIBLE) you're going to be one of the scrubs, you know.
With (INAUDIBLE) some people — you look at some bodybuilders and you just don't have the heart to tell them, but you don't have it.
Bodybuilders are — I don't know what kind — they need glasses most bodybuilders. I know.”
Tom Platz: “They only test for diuretics from what I understand right now.
Are there masking agents that — you don't really take diuretics?”
Paul Dillet: Actually, you know what, I don't know if there's a — I think they mask it, to be honest, because I mean, I've heard some people say drink vinegar, you know, I mean … “
Tom Platz: “Yeah, we used to do that.”
Paul Dillet: “I don't think they drink vinegar haha.
But you're so — you're so scared that you don't want to —
I mean, if you remember, in the 1996 Olympia you know, where certain athletes fail?
You know, and placed second, you know, have (INAUDIBLE) who's placing them to be second, you know, in the Mr. Olympia.
And to me, it's just as good as winning because of a one-point difference.
You know, it doesn't mean that because those 11 people picked that one guy, Mr. Olympia doesn't mean that it shouldn't have gone the other way, you know?
So, when you look at it, it makes you think, you want to be there, you know?
So, it's better just to diet a little harder, do a little more cardio.
I mean, come in shape.
I (INAUDIBLE) I'm thinking you don't need diuretics, to be honest.
I think if you're in shape, you know, you're in shape.
Because I've seen guys do it.
I mean, you see guys in the gym all the time.”
[54:30] Obviously, I'm not a top-level guy who actually knows, but I mean, from what I've seen in my experience, it seems like it comes more down to, “do you still have fat to lose,” or “are you in shape?”
Because a lot of times the diuretic use is to make up for fat loss that hasn't been accomplished yet.
If you're at 5% body fat, you're dry, regardless if you take a diuretic or not.
I think most of it just comes down to getting lean enough like he's saying.
Paul Dillet: “where you look at just the average guy, but he's so shredded.
He looks so dry, you know?
This is just an average guy working out, working hard.
He works at 9 — he has a 9 to 5 job, he may have a wife and kid.
Well, he just come in the gym, he trains his ass off.
And if he can do it, you know, why can't — why can't guys who don't work and their job is just to train, you know, what can they do?
So, I mean, even if there was a mask — I mean, even if there was something to mask, I think most pros are too afraid. Too afraid to try it, you know?”
Tom Platz: “Even though they were used before, or like …”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah. I've heard them said it.
You know, that they're afraid.
You know, they don't want to go that route.
They don't want to be the one that has a big scandal.
You know, at the same time, they don't want to embarrass their friends and their family and themselves.
So, it's — you know, the best thing is to leave it the way it is with the testing, and without the diuretics.”
Esiclene And Synthol Use
Tom Platz: “Continuing on the line of other agents.
Is there anything you found effective like Esiclene, injecting it directly into the muscle?
Any of those kinds of products?”
Paul Dillet: “I've tried — I've tried the Esiclene, but …”
Tom Platz: “There's some new one I think I've heard mentioned …”
Paul Dillet: “Oh, yeah, everyone is big on pump and pose, or whatever you want to call Synthol.
You know, again, to me, that's just too far, you know?
I mean, because that's not real, you know?
Bodybuilding is about — it's you, it's about you, it's about your body.
It's to show how, you know, how far you can take your body, just what you can do with your body.”
[56:52] What's funny about that is that's the reference to this new thing, the pump and pose, that's original Synthol, when Synthol first came out in the 90's.
It's seen as this next generation, new revolutionary thing.
Esiclene which is essentially obsolete now, I guess, was the popular thing back in the 90's.
Tables have kind of turned it seems like.
I don't know if Esiclene is still used in modern times, but I'm assuming it's a lot harder to get than it used to be because I haven't really heard of anyone using it.
Paul Dillet: “The guys with calf implants, you know, how can this be bodybuilding, you know?
This is like, you know, body making.
It's like making the body like some kind of a sideshow, you know?”
“I mean, I'd rather have 19” arms that pumps (INAUDIBLE) to 21.
Tom Platz: “I know.”
Paul Dillet: Because, you know, how am I going to feel?
I didn't — I didn't work for this, this is not mine, you know?
And some guys feel good about it, and they look in the mirror and say wow, and it's still not the same.
It's not the quality — it doesn't have the quality, you know?
If you look at the arms and see that, you know, it's been enhanced like something else is in there, you know, the calf.
Most guys — there a lot of guys putting it in their shoulders.
You know, I heard of guys put in their back, you know?
And I'm like, maybe you have it or you don't.
When you have to go — when you have to go to that extent, it's too far.
You know, as we got something to draw the line and ask yourself, you know, are you willing to go that distance, you know?
Me, personally, I'm not, you know?
I mean, it's actually injecting fat into the muscle, which also can be extremely dangerous.
You know, I mean, here we are, we're supposed to be so healthy and you're injecting fat in your body?
So, what's that going to do? Give you high cholesterol and clogs up your artery?
That's a heart attack right there, you know?
I mean, there's so many things that, you know, they can give themselves a blood clot right there if they injected wrong, you know, so …”
Paul Dillet On Roid Rage
Tom Platz: “How about things like we read about in the magazines like roid rage and — does that really …”
Paul Dillet: “I've never believed in it.
(INAUDIBLE) a person, you know, I chose to do this.
You know, it wasn't a means to an end.
It's always what I wanted to do. So …”
[59:42] I pretty much agree with that, too.
If you have an aggressive personality and you lash out at people, naturally, steroids will just exacerbate that and make it worse, but if you're super chill, normally, I highly doubt steroids will make you, you know, insane.
At least in my experience, it hasn't been the case.
I might get a bit edgier at most, and that was even when I did what I would consider high dosages.
I barely noticed a difference.
I think it's more your personality type to begin with, then the hormones just exaggerate it to some extent.
Paul Dillet: ” … on a diet, you know, I can't get mad at anyone, because at any moment, I can quit.
I can just say, okay, that's — I don't want to do anymore.
And I can walk away (INAUDIBLE) go in the gym, why am I going to have an attitude to people, you know, I grant you, you know …”
Tom Platz: “I remember.”
Paul Dillet: “You know? So basically, what I do when I go on the gym, I hold my head down, I put my hat on, I put my game face on, you know?
And it's up to all the individuals around me to give me that respect to realize that, you know, I'm professional, I'm here to do a job.
I can't come to your workplace and harass you.
So, when I'm at my job, don't harass me.
If you come up to me, I will tell you to leave me alone.
But I don't have to be rude, I can be polite about it, you know?
Or, for the guys who, you know, going off on their girlfriends, going off on their wives, and, you know, that's your routine, you know, because bodybuilding is not a team.
It's not like a football game team the way you have, you know, 40 something guys on the roster.
The only person that's on your team, it's either your girlfriend or your training partner, you know?
Your training partner is like your wife, you know, he better be there every day, you know, he's you going to call you, he's going to wake you up, you know, and keep you from (INAUDIBLE), you know?
So, how can I go nuts on these people, you know?
They're the people that's in my corner.
I just think roid rage is just someone who's an asshole from day one, and just have an excuse, you know, because, you know, everyone says “This will do this to you. This will do that to you.”
I just think it's all you.
It's (INAUDIBLE) about anything else.
I have so many friends who — we're all on the same level.
And I will still hang out every day and I still play — still play our games and still go out to eat and go see a movie together, hang out, and just discuss everything that we're doing, you know?
Of course, when the show gets closer, anything — what happens is it become extremely quiet, you know?
And that's because you're tired, you don't want to talk about, you know, talk.
Or, if you want to talk, you want to talk to another athlete, you know?
I mean, because he's going through the same misery, or he's been there, so he knows what you feel.
But you don't want to talk to just the average individual.
You know, so I don't believe in roid rage.”
Paul Dillet's Advice On Steroid Use And Dosing
Tom Platz: “On a closing note, is — and you've given a lot of words of wisdom and advice to our viewers in terms of their approach to the sport?
Is there anything else you'd like to add to your comments already, in terms of your suggestions, in terms of drug use, or non use or …”
Paul Dillet: “Well, I mean, I've never advocate using any kind of drugs whatsoever, you know, recreation or whatever.
Drugs is drugs, but, you know, no matter what I say, because no matter what side he wants to side, I'm still going to do it no matter what.
Only thing I could add is, you know, if you're going to do it, just keep in mind that more is not better.
You know, don't just go out and pick up something and stick it in your body.
You know, try to educate yourself, you know.
For youngsters, you know, I think it's, you know, give you give your body a chance to grow on its own.
You know, don't think that because you take it, it's gonna make you into one of the top bodybuilders.
I mean, there's no guarantees that that's going to happen.
So, just be careful, and the safest thing there is, you know, get a check-up.
At least two check-ups a year.
Get your blood work done so you know what your liver enzymes are, kidneys, prostate, there's too much (INAUDIBLE) can give you prostate cancer.
So, you know, I mean, if you do this, then at least, you minimize the risk of getting hurt.
I'm not saying you won't get hurt, I'm not saying you will get hurt.
I mean, guys do it and walk away healthy, and you know, from (INAUDIBLE) I can just thank god it hasn't happened to myself.
I pray to God (INAUDIBLE) you know, I can do this and walk away and have my health intact.”
SERMs and Aromatase Inhibitors (AI's) Use
Tom Platz: “Well, one thing that came to my mind just now is blocking agents and things like that, does that ever play a role in your training?
Since this — we're trying to basically talk about, you know, the issues in terms of drug use and estrogen-blocking agents?”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of block — there's two blocking agents.
There's Nolvadex, which a lot of guys use, I've used myself.
Personally, I prefer Proviron, you know, which is also another blocking agent.”
[1:05:25] To clarify, “blocking agent”, I suppose is a general term.
Obviously, he's talking about mitigating estrogen-related issues, which is typically accomplished via a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) or an aromatase inhibitor (AI).
What he just mentioned is Nolvadex which is a SERM, and Proviron which is pretty much just oral DHT, which is not a SERM whatsoever.
What it does though, is when you increase your androgen index with pure DHT, you antagonize estrogen.
Proviron can act as a makeshift anti-estrogen of sorts, but it's not the same mechanism of action, whereby Nolvadex selectively occupies estrogen receptors and prevents estrogen from binding.
Aromatase inhibitors are what inhibits the aromatization of Testosterone, Dianabol, etc, from converting into Estrogen.
There are not just two blockers, there's more than that in categories alone.
They're not even mentioning AI's here.
I guess we'll just see what he says.
Tom Platz: “Dosage related to body weight.”
Paul Dillet: “Again, the dosage — you know, for myself, I'm up to as much as 4 to 5 a day.
That would be maybe two weeks after the show, you know?”
Tom Platz: “I see. Two weeks …”
[1:07:04] Proviron is a steroid if you didn't already know that.
It's not intended as a SERM or an AI.
Although, some people use it as a makeshift one.
Tom Platz: ” out from?”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah.”
Tom Platz: “After the show.”
[1:07:18] It also helps free up Testosterone bound to SHBG and can help maximize the available usable Testosterone in your body while simultaneously antagonizing some circulating estrogen.
Paul Dillet: “Before.”
Tom Platz: “Before the show, okay.”
Paul Dillet: “Because you're trying to lower your estrogen level as much as possible.
I mean, as time going on, I actually didn't use any estrogen blocker at all.”
Tom Platz: “Is there anything you use to enhance natural secretion of pituitary in terms of testosterone after the event? Like HCG, Clomid?”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah, I've used HCG, you know?
And Clomid, you know, probably for about a month straight, trying to bring your own natural testosterone level back down.”
Tom Platz: “And again, dosage to body weight, but your dosage (INAUDIBLE)
Paul Dillet: ” … everything should always go by body weight.
You know, always keep in mind that, I mean, more is not better.
Also, I mean, not a subject that, you know, we should touch on is thyroids.”
Cytomel (T3) Use
Tom Platz: “Okay. Good point.”
Paul Dillet: “You know, I mean, again, you know, thyroid is not something to be joked with, you know?
Because it can leave you totally messed up (INAUDIBLE) than them.”
Tom Platz: “Do you find — is that part of your program?”
Paul Dillet: “Definitely, you know, personally, I like Cytomel.”
Tom Platz: “Cytomel?”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah, 7 weeks after the show.
You know, I'll go up to as much as 100 mcg, which again …”
Tom Platz: “Every day?”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah. Which you don't want — you know, you do that about 7 weeks out.”
[1:08:52] That's the highest dosage of T3 I've heard of a high-level guy using.
Most guys avoid T3 because it's not muscle-sparing whatsoever, it's going to tear through stored fat, as well as stored muscle.
Even if you're on a ton of anabolics, it's still going to tap into stored muscle protein.
100 mcg is quite a bit.
Again, take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.
I'm just saying anecdotally, from what I've seen, anything over 50 mcg seems to be overkill in terms of T3.
Pyramid Approach To Dosages
Paul Dillet: “You pyramid up, and you pyramid back down.
You want to start off with one a day for at least two weeks, up to two a day, stay there for a while, up to three.
The last three weeks, when you go up to four, try and get rid of any little help to help enhance get rid of any fat.”
Tom Platz: “Do a pyramid approach, or regressive systems with steroids as well?”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah. I mean, nothing should be stopped, cold turkey, you know?
Tom Platz: “When you stop the steroids, as we've mentioned — you mentioned prior to the event …”
Paul Dillet: “You pyramid down.”
“So, you pyramid up then you pyramid down.
Tom Platz: “You pyramid down?”
Paul Dillet: “I mean, a good example would be if — what happens if you slam on the car breaks if you're going 90 miles an hour?
And you jam on your car breaks, you know, you may fly through the window as a possibility.
It may stop, you may be okay.
So, it's the same thing with the steroids, you could — you're going 90 miles an hour, where you're taking this, you're taking that, you're taking these high doses, and out of the blue you just stop.”
[1:10:38] Now, obviously, a lot of you guys aren't going to agree with what he's saying here.
Logically, it would make sense why, but you have to keep in mind that in the 90s, there's no rhyme or reason to a lot of this stuff.
It was just based on what other guys are doing and what seemed to be the correct way to go about things.
I probably would have logically thought what he's saying right there too, in the 90's.
Ultimately, suppressing your hormone production past the point when your cycle should be ending just for the sake of titrating down, it doesn't necessarily make sense, in my opinion.
You're just prolonging your recovery period just for the sake of tapering down when you're suppressed regardless if you're on 50 mg of exogenous Testosterone or 500 mg of exogenous Testosterone.
Personally, I would just try clear all the exogenous suppressive hormones out of my system as fast as possible so then I could get into PCT as quick as possible to recover homeostasis and natural function.
Paul Dillet: “You know, so it's better gradually, gradually let your body adapt to the — let you body adjust to what you're doing.”
Paul Dillet's Highest Dosage Of Steroids Per Week He Would Use
Tom Platz: “Is there a certain weekly — you may have already mentioned this already, is there a certain weekly milligram total of steroids you would look at in terms of being a high dosage for you, as you pyramid up and pyramid down?”
Paul Dillet: “A high doses would be 600 mg of Testosterone, 600 mg of Deca, 2 Anadrols, and 9 IUs of GH.”
Tom Platz: “The highest level?”
Paul Dillet: “That's my — that's my highest level.”
Tom Platz: “I see. And prior to that, you would work up to that and work down?”
Paul Dillet: “I work up to that and I work myself back down.”
[1:12:33] It's sort of tackling the Myostatin issue right there, because he titrates up, which I didn't really realize earlier when he was talking about it.
I don't know if he made it clear or not.
He starts low and then his Myostatin level elevates to inhibit and prevent further muscle growth, the dosage gets titrated up more and so on and so forth throughout the entirety of the cycle it sounds like, which makes more sense for his goals.
While contradictory to what he's said, he claims his total dosage per week at his peak comprised of 600 mg Testosterone per week, 600 mg Deca, and then he was taking 50 to 100 mg Anadrol, which on the high end would be 700 mg a week of Anadrol.
That's 1900 mg, so that's almost 2 grams of steroids total per week, which is a lot less than a lot of people think these guys are using.
If you factor in the Proviron, which is technically a steroid, he would be clearing 2 grams per week, but it's still a lot less than many guys are abusing even at a regional level.
9 IUs of pharma GH is quite a bit in contrast to what I was expecting to hear him say though.
Paul Dillet: “And then, like I said, for my personal thing, I’d rather do, you know, four different things together.
You know, because sometimes certain things interact better.
One thing makes the other thing (INAUDIBLE), it's like growth hormone and testosterone, testosterone with Anadrol, you know, everything helps the next one that bit more.
So, cramming tons of it all at once, again, let your body utilize it, you know, gradually.
Then it works more efficiently (INAUDIBLE) you'll find that it’ll be a lot safer, you'll get more out of it, because once — when you put too much on your body, it's like trying to — you're trying to study for a test and you try to cram it all in one night, you know, you can't do it.
You forget all about it, so you're like, you get frustrated.
You know, it's the same thing with your body, you're trying to cram too many things in, it'll shut your body down.
[1:14:37] That's a good analogy.
Paul Dillet: “It'll be a little today, a little tomorrow, a little the next day.
Gradually, it'll all come to you.
Same thing with that if you put in a little in today, a little in tomorrow, you know, gradually, step by step, you'll get what you're looking for without (INAUDIBLE) towards just messing yourself up.”
Paul Dillet's Macros
Tom Platz: “In regards to amount of calories you eat a day, and protein, carbohydrate, fat ratios, I mean, is there a system you follow?”
Paul Dillet: “You know, I was — I always tell people, believe it or not, there is some method to all this madness.
And sometimes it (INAUDIBLE) like I said madness because sometimes when you think about this, it doesn't sound logic, you know?
I mean, in the off — you know, in the offseason which would be when you're not concentrating on a show or anything, I don't usually think about what I'm eating.
I don't think about the calories or protein or anything like that, but in preparation for a show, then, yes, I do concentrate on the amount of protein and fats, carbohydrate I take in.”
Tom Platz: “What's it like before when you're thinking about a show, what would be the caloric intake per day?”
Paul Dillet: “About 4,000. You know, 4,000 calories a day.”
Tom Platz: “And then, as far as protein?”
Paul Dillet: “Which should be consistent.
Chicken, you know, baked turkey.
Again, mixed in my protein.
So, I'm eating protein from all — from different …”
Tom Platz: “Different sources?”
Paul Dillet: “Yes, source of food groups. Carbohydrate…”
Tom Platz: “How many grams of protein a day?”
Paul Dillet: “Anywhere from 450 to 600.”
Tom Platz: “Wow.”
[1:16:22] Jeez. So, 4,000 calories a day at the start of a prep, and 450 to 600 grams of protein.
That's actually kind of what I expected, to be honest.
A lot of guys think that the pros eat a ton, but I think the reality is that they just grow off of what many would consider fairly normal surplus amounts.
The reality is, they probably do the same thing as you and I.
They just respond 100 times better.
If you can get shredded eating 2500 calories, 2400 calories, which is a pretty common number to get down to when you're prepping for a show.
Titrating back up, do you really need to jump straight up to 5,000 calories to grow?
Maybe in a few months once you've plateaued 50 times on your way there, but when you start and you're just trying to grow, I think 4,000 seems pretty reasonable, granted this guy is like 300 lbs.
I don't know if he has to increase it eventually or what, but I think it's grossly exaggerated what a lot of people think these pros are eating to grow.
I think most of them are probably eating 4,000 to 5,000 calories to grow.
Paul Dillet: “You keep the carbohydrate low, though.
Carbohydrate would be about anywhere from 100 to maybe 200 a day.”
Tom Platz: “That’s prior to an event.”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah.”
Tom Platz: “The offseason?”
Paul Dillet: “I didn’t care, you know? The carbohydrate will be very low.”
Tom Platz: “How about the fat intake?”
Paul Dillet: “You keep your fat intake — you do eat fats, maybe at all food groups.
You need fats, you need the carbs, you need the protein for them to work in conjunction together.”
Tom Platz: “Any idea of how many grams?”
Paul Dillet: “Probably — let’s say about 75 grams of fats to 100 grams of fats.”
Tom Platz: “Very high protein, low carbohydrate sort of diet you follow.”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah. High protein, low carbs, moderate amount of fats.”
[1:18:20] He's claiming he doesn't even monitor his diet in the offseason, which is seven months of the year.
Then for five months, he's on point and he's having 100 to 200 grams of carbs and 450 to 600 grams protein, which is interesting because most guys who have a ton of muscle are slamming a lot more carbs.
That seems pretty low and kind of insane to me to be honest because the theory is that carbs are muscle sparing, so you increase your carb intake when you're trying to gain muscle and lower your protein intake, so you can handle more carbs, because obviously, you don't need as much protein when your carbs are super high.
It's interesting to hear his protein cranked up to 600 and then having a low carb approach.
I thought it would have been a more middle ground, but apparently not.
Paul Dillet: “But your body does need, you know, for lubricant for the joints, the internal organs, and all these things, you know?
Supplements Over The Counter That Actually Work
Tom Platz: “Another point I wanted to address with you would be so many times in the magazines, we see a lot of top bodybuilders endorsing — I don't want to mention names but endorsing this product and this product is the magic substance or the solution to, you know, steroids and real — (INAUDIBLE) real drugs, the word, nutraceuticals comes into play.
I mean, are there nutrient type situations or compounds or nutraceuticals that really do work? What do you think about that?”
Paul Dillet: “There’s some (INAUDIBLE) there's a lot of products, I mean, that do work.
I think (INAUDIBLE) couple years back, maybe 15 years ago, 20 years ago, nutrition wasn't as good as it is right now.
But, I mean, I'm a firm believer in, you know, protein supporting drinks, you know, I mean, you have a lot of athletes who don't have the appetites the way they — the way they get their calories in, or their proteins, but, you know, the protein supplements, you know, whether it's in a package or, you know, in a container, whichever way you do it.
And of course, you do need vitamins, minerals, all these different things, anti-oxidizing things …”
Tom Platz: “Anti-oxidants?”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah, to flush out the body. I mean, B vitamin is one of the best vitamins, you know, you can get.
Then, combined with your vitamin C.
So, there's a lot of products out there.
There are some products that I really don't know too much about, you know, because I never stopped to take the time to educate myself on it because I don't think it's something that is a 100% must for me.
But I do believe that multi-mineral vitamin B complex, you know, (INAUDIBLE)”
Tom Platz: “Basics?”
Paul Dillet: “Yeah. I do believe 100% in all the basics, you know, chromium, all these — all the things that were there 20 years ago, but are still here right now.
Only it's just been enhanced this much better.
The technology is so much better.
I totally believe in those 100%.”
Tom Platz: “Okay, thank you very much. Appreciate it.”
Conclusion On Paul Dillet's Steroid Cycle
After listening to the entire interview, at the peak of Paul Dillet's steroid cycle dosages in the offseason and pre-contest, he claims his use broke down to the following:
Testosterone Cypionate – 400-600 mg per week
Nandrolone Decanoate (Deca) – 400-600 mg per week
Anadrol – 50-100 mg per day
Testosterone Propionate – 500-600 mg per week
Primobolan – 500-600 mg per week
Anadrol – 50-100 mg per day
GH (growth hormone) – 9 IUs per day
Proviron – 4-5 pills per day
Cytomel – Titrating up to 100 mcg per day
Calories, Protein, Carbohydrate, And Fat Intake Precontest:
Calories – 4000 cal per day
Protein – 450-600 grams per day
Carbs – 100-200 grams per day
Fats – 75-100 grams per day
[1:21:33] Paul's dosages weren't crazy high.
His GH use was moderately high, but the anabolics themselves didn't pass 2-3 grams at his peak apparently.
No insulin use, and overall his use is a lot more moderate than you would expect from a guy who's easily considered one of the biggest mass monsters of the 90’s.